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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Dear Ron, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I believe the approach you are taking is wrong and likely to go nowhere. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>When boiling water there are lots of waste products from the process: Smoke and tars, char, ash and left over biomass too small to re-use. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>When making Biochar to add to a soil there are waste products: gases that are flared off, ash etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>All are waste products because they are not used for the intended purpose or product and, before they can be used for something else they need to have the quality suitable for that purpose. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>I think it is good enough to just market a stove for 1) boiling water or 2) boiling water and produce char for possible other purposes. If the char is something someone will be able to use they will buy the stove that gives that added benefit. They can sell it or use it should it have the right properties. There can be no addition to the formula. There is no winning or losing. Just marketing. But we need to make sure it is mentioned char is produced. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>AND I am not so sure the efficiency of a Rocket is all the better than the TLUD when the right formula is used (E450c). : ) Should the TLUD be slightly less efficient than the Rocket I think marketing for char will take it to the top of the list of preferred stoves. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Frank<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Frank Shields<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Control Laboratories; Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>42 Hangar Way<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>Watsonville, CA 95076<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>(831) 724-5422 tel<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>(831) 724-3188 fax<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>frank@biocharlab.com<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'>www.controllabs.com<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ronal W. Larson<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, February 21, 2014 10:22 AM<br><b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass; Crispin Pemberton-Pigott<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Request for technology proposals - Clean Stove Initiative, Indonesia<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Crispin:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>I think TLUD companies might find it interesting to enter on the water-boiling side of this RFTP. But it is not clear how charcoal will be counted. I can see at least three formulas for calculating the efficiency; one ignoring the char, by which no TLUD could ever win if they wanted to save the char. The two formulae that count char as a useful co-product could either (or both) place the char in the numerator or the denominator. One of these formulas will make the proscribed efficiencies quite achievable. I can’t find the intended formula(e) in what you have sent.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Ron<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Feb 21, 2014, at 8:42 AM, Crispin Pembert-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear Friends</span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The RFTP has been placed on the GACC website at the following address:</span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><a href="http://www.cleancookstoves.org/funding-opportunities/grants/request-for-technology-proposals-indonesia.html"><span style='color:purple'>http://www.cleancookstoves.org/funding-opportunities/grants/request-for-technology-proposals-indonesia.html</span></a></span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>in a slightly shortened version to meet the space requirement.</span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Many thanks Barbara Kerr</span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards</span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Crispin</span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-CA><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-CA style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>