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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>Dear Paul and Stovers,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>Most pellets here in the States must pass the required tests so all burn the same. But I have tested pellets made of paper, chicken manure, cow manure and many other components. What we are talking of doing we will likely make pellets from one extreme of the spectrum to the other. I would think the quality of the pellets (what they are made of) would be of main concern and then shape (void space when packed) and air control to match. I, as you know, do not test stoves but testing the different pellets for char and ash left varies and this a variable you would want to control. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>Frank<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>Frank Shields<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>Control Laboratories; Inc.<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>42 Hangar Way<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>Watsonville, CA 95076<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>(831) 724-5422 tel<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>(831) 724-3188 fax<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>frank@biocharlab.com<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>www.controllabs.com<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul Anderson<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 06, 2014 11:35 AM<br><b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves; Willem J. Kuipers - Netherlands & TZ; Bob Fairchild<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Cuber and size of densifying machines. (no longer Re: The wood and char and fuel "debate" )<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Stovers,<br><br>Crispin wrote, in agreement with Dean, and I have added the emphasis on Crispin's words:<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The air flow through the pellets strongly affects the way they burn</span><b><i><u><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> if the device is constructed such that the fuel contributes a significant element of air control.</span></u></i></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Simply, stove devices should NOT be constructed for a specific fuel UNLESS that fuel is specified and can be supplied. The issue is just like using an incorrect grade of gasoline in your automobile. LEADED gas will not burn like unleaded. Super premium is different from regular. And pellet sizes are different from each other (assuming that the pellet materials were also the same, which might or might not have been the case in what Dean has mentioned.)<br><br>Most of the TLUD stoves that have been tested have not been the ones with serious control of the primary air supply. Hence the problem that Dean mentions. <br><br>I do not know of any tests of emissions from different pellet sizes that have been conducted in TLUD stoves that have serious control of primary air. One more research topic to add to the list of things to do.<br><br>Personal comment: I have had my hand involved with the development of the "Champion Family" of TLUD stoves:<br>1. Champion TLUD that won the first Cat Pee Award at Aprovecho Stove Camp 2005. We just had a blocker on the primary air inlet.<br><br>2. Champion by Servals (India): Still with a rather rudimentary control of primary air (a disk into a cone).<br><br>3. Mwoto (for BEIA project by CREEC in Uganda): It has a slider control of primary air directly on the fuel cylinder, but we had not perfected it then and did not make much of an issue about closing off the primary air through tiny gaps such as at the ends the strips that hold the slider in place.. <br><br>4. Quad (by Awamu in Uganda): We made a better slider door and placed it onto a "snout" for primary air. But we did not seal with great care. Also, the tab-and-slot construction left tiny air leaks that proved to be too much uncontrolled air. This was discovered at the July 2013 Stove Camp at Aprovecho where we progressively sealed better and better the stoves being tested. The best sealed stove won one of the Cat Pee Awards. That was seven months ago, and we have stopped production of the Quad stove with tab-and-slot construction (and have sealed better the existing units.)<br><br>5. Troika Bingwa (by Awamu in Uganda): This stove is just getting out to the users. It has a tightly sealed fuel chamber with a slider over the primary air entry.<br><br>Note: Do not underestimate the impact of even a very very very small leak of primary air if you expect to have turn-down of a TLUD stove.<br><br>Of all the other TLUD stoves, most have no attempt to control the primary air. The unit by Prof. Nurhuda does seem to have excellent primary air control (but I do not have one of those stoves, and there are additional issues to be considered.)<br><br>I hope that these comments are useful for everyone dealing with natural draft TLUD stoves. Comments pro or con are most welcome.<br><br>Paul<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><p class=MsoNormal>On 3/6/2014 11:38 AM, Crispin Pembert-Pigott wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Dear Friends</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I agree with Dean on this score. The air flow through the pellets strongly affects the way they burn if the device is constructed such that the fuel contributes a significant element of air control.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>These devices</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Are ‘cubers’ in that they are producing densified lumps that can be put into a stove. But they will work best in a large stove such as is used in China for space heating and cooking. The input material is straw and other stover.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The mechanism is an eccentric roller running inside a perforated cage at maybe 60-100 RPM. As Tom notes, power consumption is about 110 kW.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So far I don’t think the product is economically viable as there is a subsidy involved. What we need is a breakthrough technology that will make densified fuel without the need for heat.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Crispin</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"'> </span></b><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Paul,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I have seen the very small pellets sold for heating stoves in the US burn very cleanly. Larger sized pellets did not burn as cleanly. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Best,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Dean<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Stoves mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>