<div dir="ltr">Hi Paul,<div><br></div><div>I have seen the very small pellets sold for heating stoves in the US burn very cleanly. Larger sized pellets did not burn as cleanly. </div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br>
</div><div>Dean</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 7:02 AM, Paul Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Dear Stovers and ot<small>her Friends,<br>
<br>
I am in agreement with Bjarne. It appears (yet still to be
totally proven) that the larger diameter (such as 60 mm = 2.3
inches) <b><u>densified </u></b>biomass is probably a better
way to proceed into larger production with mechanization in the
developing societies. <br>
<br>
Note that "densified" is with higher compression (including the
crushing of cell structures and the "melting" of lignin that
gives the glossy outer coating on DENSIFIED pellets and
"processed logs" or densified briquettes). <br>
<br>
Note: IMO, the term "briquette" is used differently by various
people who do not distinguish between the high-density and the
low-density briquettes and the processes to make them.<br>
<br>
Similarly, there can be high and low density "pucks" or disks or
wedges. Maybe HD and LD can be used to distinguish between the
two main types.<br>
<br>
For example, LD briquettes and pucks are made with manual
presses and jacks for lifting vehicles. These LD processed
fuels can also be great as fuel (especially for TLUD gasifiers)
if that is what the budget and circumstances allow for
production. Bjarne and I are NOT commenting against the LD
precessed fuels. We are commenting about the HD processed
fuels, and are stating that the larger (60mm) diameter fuels are
probably the more practical (lower cost and less maintenance)
way to make HD processed biomass fuels. Clearly pellets (HD
and about 6 to 8 mm diameter) have an important role and are
commercially viable, but that is in the context of developed and
affluent societies. <br>
<br>
As I have commented before, when the HD processed biomass "log"
is extruded by a ram press (not by an auger), the log is
essentially a series of disks that are jammed together. The
disks come out hot and slide along a cooking rack perhaps 5
meters long. And while still hot (meaning closer to the
press), they can be gently tapped and they will break apart into
very clean disks measuring about 60 mm diameter and 10 to 15 mm
thick. If the fuel user needs smaller pieces at the time to
cooking the meal, the disks can be easily broken by hand or hit
with a rock or piece of log to become halves and quarters. For
Awamu in Uganda, two different makers of HD "logs" have provided
us with disks when requested.<br>
<br>
Also stated in earlier messages, inside a TLUD gasifier, the
disks can be place vertically (on edge) and have a superior air
flow than if they are placed horizontally. <br>
<br>
Comments in support or contrary would be greatly appreciated.<br>
<br>
Paul <br>
</small>
<pre cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a>
Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 3/6/2014 1:32 AM, Bjarne Laustsen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">To
Paul and others
<br>
Fuel supply can be big business but it does not need to be.
<br>
We have been making pellets for gasification stoves.
<br>
The pellets in itself work very well if they are in sizes from 6
mm or 8 mm in diameter, they have been burning very good in our
gasification stoves.
<br>
The problems in relation with pellets for gasification stoves are
how to find good and sustainable pellet presses for producing the
pellets.
<br>
The slides from the presentation from Crane Wang MUYANG illustrate
this very well. Because the pellet press they shows are big and
expensive equipments that will do a good job, however they are
outside the financial reach of most of us.
<br>
We have experiences with some of the smaller and cheaper pellets
mills, and they are not able to produce pellets in a sustainable
way. They are designed for feed pellet production, and they
aretherefore not able to produce fuel pellets in an economical
way.
<br>
<br>
I have noted that in China they are mainly working with pellets
for fuel production while in India they are working with
briquettes.
<br>
<br>
For me to see the cuber will still be an to expensive solution.
<br>
<br>
The solution for us will be to use the Indian type of mechanical
piston briquette presses that can make briquettes with diameter of
60 mm and get attached a puck cutter on that so the briquettes are
cut out in pucks. Such pucks will be a good fuel for gasification
stoves. And the equipment is reasonable in price so it is possible
for many to finance such a solution.
<br>
<br>
These briquette presses can work with most types of agricultural
residues, so we at the same can shift to using renewable biomass
for cooking and in this way also contribute to reducing the
deforestation.
<br>
<br>
Bjarne Laustsen
<br>
<br>
On 3/5/2014 10:47 PM, Paul Anderson wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Stovers,
<br>
<br>
Slide #9 of the presentation at the site given below is
interesting. Those cubes should work very well in gasifiers of
many different sizes.
<br>
<br>
I was impressed by the other slides that show the very large
sizes of the pelletizers and cubers. If supply of raw
materials is sufficient, large machines seem so much more
appropriate than 100 or 1000 small units. Fuel supply is BIG
business.
<br>
<br>
Paul
<br>
<br>
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
<br>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a>
<br>
Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a>
<br>
<br>
On 3/5/2014 9:58 AM, Energies Naturals C.B. wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Hello Michael,
<br>
<br>
.....
<br>
<br>
We saw some examples of cubers in a Beijing(?) stove
exposition some time ago.
<br>
<br>
Also check this:
<a href="http://www.novator.se/bioint/BPUA12Pres/10_BPUA12_Crane_Wang_MUYANG.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.novator.se/bioint/BPUA12Pres/10_BPUA12_Crane_Wang_MUYANG.pdf</a>
<br>
<br>
Hope this helps
<br>
<br>
Rolf
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Wed, 26 Feb 2014 10:36:47 -0600
<br>
Michael Mahowald <a href="mailto:memahowald@hotmail.com" target="_blank"><memahowald@hotmail.com></a> wrote:
<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">You are absolutely correct Paul !
<br>
Deforestation happens all over the world with the lack of
fire wood.
<br>
There simply is not enough dry sources of trees or waste
from them even for TLUD's to keep even poor consumers
interested in them.
<br>
We know vetiver grass has the highest photosynthetic
activity of any plant, making it the most renewable energy
source on the planet. We just have to densify the grass
into pellets at a cost that people can afford. The only way
we can do this is to eliminate the cost of diesel fuel to
run the generator to make the pellets.
<br>
We are planning on using a downdraft gasifier for gas to
accomplish this. We just have to perfect this process and
size it for a portable pelleting plant that can be taken to
the fields they grow it.
<br>
When we perfect this it will be capable to work everywhere
in the world that needs clean cook stoves.
<br>
If you want to see what we are doing check out
<br>
<a href="http://haitireconstruction.ning.com/page/grass-energy" target="_blank">http://haitireconstruction.ning.com/page/grass-energy</a>
<br>
and
<a href="http://haitireconstruction.ning.com/page/sustainable-path-on-how-to" target="_blank">http://haitireconstruction.ning.com/page/sustainable-path-on-how-to</a>
<br>
<br>
Michael E. MahowaldPresident
<br>
Haiti Reconstruction International952-220-6814
<br>
<br>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 20:43:31 -0600
<br>
From: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
<br>
To: <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>; <a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a>
<br>
Subject: [Stoves] The wood and char and fuel "debate" (was a
long time ago called Re: Request for technology proposals -
Clean Stove Initiative, Indonesia)
<br>
<br>
<br>
Dear Crispin, Ron and all,
<br>
<br>
<br>
It is interesting reading the back and forth between
Ron and
<br>
Crispin. I emphasize two paragraphs from Crispin,
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2/24/2014 10:10 AM, Crispin Pembert-Pigott wrote:
<br>
<br>
There
<br>
is no dispute between us whatsoever as to the
energy
<br>
consumption: the energy remaining in the char
represents
<br>
energy not liberated from the fuel consumed.
<br>
The
<br>
important question is not what we want, but
what the
<br>
customer of the test result wants. They are not
asking how
<br>
much energy was used when cooking, they asked
how much fuel
<br>
was consumed. The answer is of course different
if there is
<br>
char remaining and that char is not ‘fuel’ to
the same stove
<br>
for the next fire.
<br>
For the vast majority of
"customers" (including governments that
<br>
want to reduce or reverse deforestation), the important
question is
<br>
"how much wood is burned." The interests are highly
related to
<br>
WOOD, specifically related to TREES, not even counting
sawdust that
<br>
goes into pellets.
<br>
<br>
<br>
So, because TLUD stoves are VERY GOOD at burning
NON-wood biomass,
<br>
the wood saved can be 100%. And we still get the
char.
<br>
<br>
<br>
Concerning fuel and wood and non-wood and char and
other such
<br>
measurements, the real problems can come from rankings
and Tiers and
<br>
o
<br>
ther reports that could give excellent stoves some poor
results
<br>
because the "authorities" are defining fuel as being
exclusively
<br>
wood, as in trees and woodlands that need to be
protected.
<br>
<br>
<br>
If we could get past that "imposed intellectual
construct" of fuel
<br>
being wood, we could make more progress about some
types of biomass
<br>
stoves being even better than good for the environment.
<br>
<br>
<br>
Rest assured that the advocates of alcohol and kerosene
and other
<br>
NON-biomass fuels are pointing out that their stoves
help minimize
<br>
deforestation/enviromental degradation.
<br>
<br>
<br>
Biomass that is NOT WOOD needs to be recognized as
being favorable
<br>
for saving trees, and credit given to the stoves that
can use those
<br>
non-wood biomass fuels.
<br>
<br>
<br>
AND that recognition and credit needs to be EXPLICITLY
STATED IN THE
<br>
REPORTS ABOUT FUEL CONSUMPTION.
<br>
<br>
<br>
In some ways, this is all just another discussion about
why the
<br>
reported results of any stove testing need much
explanation (which
<br>
is usually not provided) and why the results are so
easy to ignore
<br>
as being poorly related to the realities of people and
their stoves
<br>
and their fuels.
<br>
<br>
<br>
I hope we can do better in the future.
<br>
<br>
<br>
Paul
<br>
(still another week to go on my vacation trip to
Brazil,
<br>
so I probably will not be sending replies.)
<br>
<br>
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
<br>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a>
<br>
Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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