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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>Dean,<BR> <BR>I do not know what kind of pellets or what type of gasifier you were using in China, but I am talking about pellets made out of sawdust or woodshavings, size 6 - 10 mm (Swedish/ European standard) and they works very well in a ND gasifier, like the Peko Pe or a FD WoodGas XL.<BR>Just lit from the top and you will have no smoke or hardly any toxic emissions.<BR>Gives you a long and efficient burn.<BR> <BR>The only recipe for production of proper pellets, is the right moisture content of the FRESH rawmaterials, less than 10 % and depending what kind of biomass you are using - PROUSED in a High Quality pellet mill. (preferably made in Sweden/Finland or Germany).<BR>AND not to forget, <BR>Proper Tools, yes - but also experienced People to handle the rawmaterials and the whole Production line to the finshed product.<BR> <BR>I have visited and talked to several People doing this kind of processing for about 30 years, and they say they learn something "new" every day.................<BR> <BR>Its a challange, yes, but it can be done, like the Swedes have been doing this kind of Production for more than 30 years.<BR> <BR>Otto <br> <BR><div><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:11:13 -0700<br>From: deankstill@gmail.com<br>To: stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Pellets in Uganda was Re: Cuber and size of densifying machines.<br><br><div dir="ltr">Hi Ron,<div><br></div><div>Pellets made in China are also often smoky and hard to use in a TLUD. The pellet needs to be well made, to a good recipe, to burn cleanly. Small size seems to be better.</div><div>
<br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br></div><div>Dean</div></div><div class="ecxgmail_extra"><br><br><div class="ecxgmail_quote">On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Otto Formo <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:terra-matricula@hotmail.com" target="_blank">terra-matricula@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="ecxgmail_quote" style="padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;">
<div><div dir="ltr">Dear Ron,<br>To light a proper Natural Draft Gasifier, you just need a proper starter.<br> <br>Pellet diped into kerosine will do, or just simple woodshaveings.<br> <br>The pellet in a Natural Draft gasfier "does not burn" as such, it just turns into (bio)char and only the gases burns about 5 to 10 cm above the biomass .<br>
No need to ingnite the pellet and face the "problems " or challages as for a Rocket stove.<br> <br>This "brand new" technolgy, known for centuries, compared to the open three stone fire - light from the top to avoid any hassard and hazzel, which will solve most issues conserning smoke and toxic emissions.<br>
<br>Just remember, the more dry and dense fuel, the better...................... <br> <br>Otto <br> <br><div><hr>From: <a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a><br>Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2014 13:12:02 -0600<br>
To: <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Pellets in Uganda was Re: Cuber and size of densifying machines.<br><br>Dean et al<div><br>
</div><div><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"> </span>Was this poor lighting performance in a Rocket or TLUD or other? Do you (or anyone) think it should make a difference? And would 1/4” pellets of same density have the same problem? If not - what is the reason for a size difference?</div>
<div><br></div><div><span style="white-space: pre-wrap;"> </span>Anyone using a pellet stove for space heating able to say anything on problems with larger and/or more dense pellets? Are there warnings on the size of pellets for pellet-type space heaters?</div>
<div><br></div><div>Ron</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Mar 15, 2014, at 11:18 AM, Dean Still <<a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com" target="_blank">deankstill@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br>
<blockquote><div dir="ltr">Hi Paul,<div><br></div><div>The pellets were about one inch in diameter and very dense. Hard to light and went out easily.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br></div><div>Dean</div></div>
<div>
<br><br><div>On Sat, Mar 15, 2014 at 8:37 AM, Paul Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;">
<div>
<div>Dean,<br>
<br>
Please tell us about those pellets: characteristics and source
and used in what stove(s). The experience by Awamu in Uganda
does not agree with your statement. But there could be different
sources and different stoves.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a>
Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com/" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 3/6/2014 1:20 PM, Dean Still wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div dir="ltr">Hi Tom,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In Uganda the pellets were too dense and were hard to
light. Do you know the density of USA heating stove pellets?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dean</div>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<div>On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 11:02 AM, Tom
Miles <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com" target="_blank">tmiles@trmiles.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>Richard,</span><BR><div><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'> </span><br>
</div><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>You
probably mean 0.6 g/cm3 (37 lb/ft3) which is very
good that’s better than most commercial wood
pellets. For reference the dry density of sawdust is
often about .160 g/cm3 (or 10 lb/ft3). The loose
density of straw is about 0.08 g/cm3 or (5 lb/ft3).
The press roll on a pellet mill exerts about 142
bars (2000 psig). If you can get those densities by
selecting materials, wetting, pressing at 12 bar and
drying you are doing very well. </span><BR><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'><br>
Tom</span><BR><a name="144c75ac67c0257a_144c664b24428537_14498c779ba49ea1__MailEndCompose" target="_blank"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'> </span></a><BR>
<div>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) currentColor currentColor; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"><b><span style='font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>From:</span></b><span style='font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>
Stoves [mailto:<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Legacy Found<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 06, 2014 10:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Cuber and size of
densifying machines. (no longer Re: The wood and
char and fuel "debate" )</span><BR>
</div>
</div><div> <br></div>
<div>Crispin, what densities are you
seeking. We have seen densities of up to 0.6kg/cm^3
by use of really fine granular material charcoal
sawdust and certain other ag residues as infiller in
hand presses generating only about 12 bars pressure.<BR>
</div>
<div>I have not attempted pellet
production but have no doubt that high pressure is
not needed: Rather its more about attention to
blend particle density and size and variations
between these (sorting coefficients) that makes the
difference density wise. <BR>
</div>
<div>May look into it if anybody is
interested in the fuel pellet world.<BR>
</div>
<div>Richard<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<BR>
</div>
<div>
<br>
On Mar 6, 2014, at 11:38, Crispin Pembert-Pigott
<<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>>
wrote:<BR>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>Dear
Friends</span><BR><div><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'> </span><br></div><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>I
agree with Dean on this score. The air flow
through the pellets strongly affects the way
they burn if the device is constructed such
that the fuel contributes a significant
element of air control.</span><BR><div><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'> </span><br></div><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>These
devices</span><BR><image002.jpg><BR><div><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'> </span><br></div>
<span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>Are
‘cubers’ in that they are producing densified
lumps that can be put into a stove. But they
will work best in a large stove such as is
used in China for space heating and cooking.
The input material is straw and other stover.</span><BR><div><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'> </span><br></div><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>The
mechanism is an eccentric roller running
inside a perforated cage at maybe 60-100 RPM.
As Tom notes, power consumption is about 110
kW.</span><BR><div><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'> </span><br></div><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>So
far I don’t think the product is economically
viable as there is a subsidy involved. What we
need is a breakthrough technology that will
make densified fuel without the need for heat.</span><BR><div><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'> </span><br></div><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>Regards</span><BR>
<span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>Crispin</span><BR><div><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'> </span><br>
</div><b><span style='font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'> </span></b><BR><div><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'> </span><br>
</div>
<div>Hi Paul,<BR>
<div><div> <br></div>
</div>
<div>I have seen the very
small pellets sold for heating stoves in the
US burn very cleanly. Larger sized pellets
did not burn as cleanly. <BR>
</div>
<div><div> <br></div>
</div>
<div>Best,<BR>
</div>
<div><div> <br></div>
</div>
<div>Dean<BR>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
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