<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div>List, cc J F Rozis and Carolina Romero etal</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1. This thread started on the 25th with a question from JF on CO measurement viability. Partially answered by Carolina yesterday, saying that portable blood measuring equipment was recently available to do this, in what seemed to be a nice new technique that correlated well with other approaches for measuring CO levels in blood. I conclude from this that the answer to JF’s question was yes on CO. No guarantee that it tells you enough about particulates, but we still want to drop CO as much as we can, so I think this new technique is one we should hear more about, since it seems cheap. The paper below co-authored by Carolina is well worth reading, even though it is not directly on stoves. It seems likely that there are some kitchens around as bad as the temazcals studied in the paper given below. A comparison of those kitchens (not temazcals) with the same using TLUDS should be helpful. If any group could do this, it would be those associated with Dr. Smith, but I would hope Dean Still and other testers would acquire the portable CO-blood units also - as they apparently are not too expensive.</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2. I bought a very cheap maybe similar (on one finger) oxygen sensor when we thought my wife’s blood oxygen levels were getting low (they weren’t). Anyone know if these super cheap O2 units might give a reading that could be interpreted in CO terms? They seem likely to operate on the same principle.</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3. Now leaving JF’s question: Carolina’s paper made me want to learn more about temazcals. I found a bit at </div><div><a href="http://www.tlahui.com/temaz1.html">http://www.tlahui.com/temaz1.html</a></div><div>and almost 100 pages at</div><div><a href="http://www.ethnografica.com/kevingroark/pdf/Groark_1997.pdf">http://www.ethnografica.com/kevingroark/pdf/Groark_1997.pdf</a></div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Neither of these gave any hint of the health (and death) problems described in Carolina’s paper. These are NOT the Finnish type of sauna, as there is no roof vent - and the users of these temazcals sometimes want to be in the smokiest, hottest part of the structure (as do sauna users). So I think we should be talking more about technical means (also said in the 2011 paper given below) to reduce the CO. Folks are dying - and probably a lot more in Mexico than in Guatemala. It sounds much like what I have heard about some Native American traditional sweat ceremonies - where it is not unusual to pass out. (and presumably in some cases die). Just for emphasis repeat that the CO is not coming from a fire - it comes only from charcoal after the fire has heated up rocks (that get some water - along with the char, I think).</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>4. My tentative conclusion is that some TLUD stove person in Central America should see if a TLUD could drop the CO level a lot. The main argument for changing a traditional local practice is probably not a health reason - it is that temazcal users can make money on the produced char as they bathe. No-one should encourage this test without some of these CO sensors.</div><div><br></div><div>Ron</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On Apr 29, 2014, at 5:40 PM, B.C. Romero Orellana <<a href="mailto:bcromero@gmail.com">bcromero@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><h2 class="" style="padding: 0px; margin: 10px 0px 0px; font-size: 1.2em; font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif;"><a href="http://ehs.sph.berkeley.edu/krsmith/?p=993" rel="bookmark" style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(23,76,109)">Non-invasive measurement of carbon monoxide burden in Guatemalan children and adults following wood-fired temazcal (sauna-bath) use</a></h2>
<div class="" style="font-family: Georgia, 'Times New Roman', serif; font-size: 14px;"><p style="line-height:1.5em">Lam, N., Nicas, M., Ruiz-Mercado, I., & Thompson, L., Romero, C., Smith K.R. (2011). Non-invasive measurement of carbon monoxide burden in Guatemalan children and adults following wood-fired temazcal (sauna-bath) use. Journal of Environmental Monitoring.→ Download PDF</p>
</div><p class="" style="font-family: verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.75em; line-height: 1.5em;"><a href="http://ehs.sph.berkeley.edu/krsmith/?p=993" rel="bookmark" style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(23,76,109)">http://ehs.sph.berkeley.edu/krsmith/?p=993</a></p><p class="" style="font-family: verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.75em; line-height: 1.5em;"><br></p><p class="" style="font-family: verdana, arial, sans-serif; font-size: 0.75em; line-height: 1.5em;">
Th<span style="font-size:0.75em;line-height:1.5em">is happens when I was working for Kirk´s group and has a good aceptance between people, Maybe it will help and you don´t need to ask for blood itself.</span></p></div><div class="gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2014-04-29 16:37 GMT-06:00 Crispin Pembert-Pigott <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex; position: static; z-index: auto;">
<div lang="EN-CA" link="blue" vlink="purple"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Dear Dean And All<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">></span>Can you give us your thoughts, links on ventilation as an approach to reducing exposure to PM and CO?<span style="color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><snipped as being on a different solution></div><div><br></div><br></body></html>