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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">All,<br>
<br>
I like Tom's comments. And I remind Otto and others that there
is a major difference between the TLUD pyrolysis stage in an Oorja
and the carbon-burning stage in the same stove that is operated
after the Migratory Pyrolytic Front (MPF) has reached the
bottom. THAT is why the Oorja has the cast iron cup at the
bottom, to protect the regular metal from the forge-heats of air
blowing on hot char. With the FORCED air onto that hot char, the
cup glows red hot. And with the forced air the fine particles
can be elevated out of the cup and out of the stove, and into the
room, as Otto has described. <br>
<br>
Otto wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">To avoid clinker formation, we just
removed the char [from a TLUD stove] , before it starts glowing,
namely biochar.......problem solved?</blockquote>
I agree. But point out that such a solution is equally possible
if the TLUD has Force Air (FA).<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 5/18/2014 12:08 PM, Tom Miles wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:000001cf72bb$c3066220$49132660$@trmiles.com"
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Otto,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
TLUD should be the perfect device for high ash fuels. Jock
Gill has burned a lot of grass pellets in TLUDS so that
should be good indication. Paul W had burned bundles of
grass as you, Otto, probably have. Just as you have
described the temperature in the carbon should be well below
sintering temperatures low until you reach the char burning
stage. At that point you will be oxidizing he carbon at well
above 1000C which will melt most ash and you will get
clinkers.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The
fine carbon burnout will only be as efficient as the gas
burning portion of the TLUD even so it should be very good.
I agree with Dean that the carbon burnout in a forced draft
stove might be an issue. On the other hand you can have low
velocities at the grate and higher velocities above the
grate burnout should be very good. The challenge is doing
that in stoves that operate at low power, poor air control,
and burns with very high excess air. It would be difficult
to recirculate flue gas in as small stove. Even then you
need lower oxygen in the recirculating gas than you can get
in a stove. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Tom
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Stoves [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Crispin Pemberton-Pigott<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 18, 2014 2:48 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Clinker Formation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Otto
that straw pellet test will be important because it may
have all its Cl and K in it so the melting temp will be
lowered. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">If
processed agri-wastes are to be an important fuel they
will have to be accommodated by the designer. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Regards <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Crispin
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">BBM
2B567C3<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:
</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Otto
Formo<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Sent:
</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Sunday,
May 18, 2014 16:39<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">To:
</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Stoves
Bioenergylist<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Reply
To: </span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Discussion
of biomass cooking stoves<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Subject:
</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Re:
[Stoves] Clinker Formation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Dean
Still,<br>
According to Crispin and to our experience, the flames
reaching the cooler pot, instantly create char or black
carbon - insufficient combustion create more PM and black
carbon........!?<br>
<br>
The fan driven Oorja, was tested here with woodpellets,
four years ago.<br>
At full blast the "room" was soon covered in a thin layer
of soot and ash.<br>
The cast iron combustion "chamber" was glowing instantly-
around 1000 - 1100 C.<br>
What about ultra fine particles......?? <br>
<br>
Natural Draft gasifiers, are the way
forward................<br>
<br>
We will soon test the Peko Pe with staw pellets and see
the effects of clinker formation.<br>
<br>
Using Corn colbs (agri-waste) as fuel, we noticed a
temperature of 450 - 550 C at the top of the flame and
around 350 -400 C at the pyrolysis front.<br>
At the end of the burn, when most gases are utillized and
the char starts glowing, we can raech the temperature
arond 900 - 1000 C.<br>
<br>
To avoid clinker formation, we just removed the char ,
before it starts glowing, namely biochar.......problem
solved?<br>
<br>
Otto<br>
</p>
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