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<body class='hmmessage'><div dir='ltr'>Paul and Michael,<BR> <BR>I have also tested WoodGas XL with woodpellets, even before the Oorja and the problems, we faced then.<BR>The ash remain at the bottom of the WG XL, allright, but what about the fines..............?<BR> <BR>I have not looked into the different construction of the WG or the Oorja, but know doubt that the Oorja blows the ash and fines into the "room" at full blast.<BR>The cast iron is also an "issue" and can cause serious burns.<BR> <BR>That`s why, I am vey doubtfull about the Forced Draft gasifiers and the issue about fines and silica................unless you put a filter of some kind.................then it is getting too complicated.<BR> <BR>Otto <br> <BR><div><hr id="stopSpelling">From: mtrevor@ntamar.net<br>To: stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org<br>Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 07:41:59 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [Stoves] Clinker Formation - Oorja and forced air<br><br>
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<div>Here in the Marshalls we had a similar problem when people left the fan
running on the charcoal in the bottom of the XL woodgas stove too.</div>
<div>The burned out the bottom. Force draft on coals is good
<div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Calibri"; font-size: small; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; text-decoration: none; display: inline;'><font face="Calibri" size="3">for blacksmithing bot not stoves.</font></div></div>
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<div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Calibri"; font-size: small; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; text-decoration: none; display: inline;'>Michael
N Trevor</div></div>
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<div style='color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: "Calibri"; font-size: small; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; text-decoration: none; display: inline;'>Majuro</div></div>
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<div><b>From:</b> <a title="psanders@ilstu.edu" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">Paul Anderson</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 18, 2014 12:15 PM</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Clinker Formation - Oorja and forced
air</div></div></div>
<div> </div></div>
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<div class="ecxmoz-cite-prefix">All,<br><br>I like Tom's comments.
And I remind Otto and others that there is a major difference between the TLUD
pyrolysis stage in an Oorja and the carbon-burning stage in the same stove that
is operated after the Migratory Pyrolytic Front (MPF) has reached the
bottom. THAT is why the Oorja has the cast iron cup at the bottom,
to protect the regular metal from the forge-heats of air blowing on hot
char. With the FORCED air onto that hot char, the cup glows red
hot. And with the forced air the fine particles can be elevated out
of the cup and out of the stove, and into the room, as Otto has
described. <br><br>Otto wrote:
<blockquote>To avoid clinker formation, we just removed the char
[from a TLUD stove] , before it starts glowing, namely biochar.......problem
solved?</blockquote>I agree. But point out that such a solution is
equally possible if the TLUD has Force Air (FA).<br><br>Paul<br><pre class="ecxmoz-signature">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>On
5/18/2014 12:08 PM, Tom Miles wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote cite="mid:000001cf72bb$c3066220$49132660$@trmiles.com">
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>Otto,</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'></span> </p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>The
TLUD should be the perfect device for high ash fuels. Jock Gill has burned a
lot of grass pellets in TLUDS so that should be good indication. Paul W
had burned bundles of grass as you, Otto, probably have. Just as you have
described the temperature in the carbon should be well below sintering
temperatures low until you reach the char burning stage. At that point you
will be oxidizing he carbon at well above 1000C which will melt most ash and
you will get clinkers.</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'></span> </p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>The
fine carbon burnout will only be as efficient as the gas burning portion of
the TLUD even so it should be very good. I agree with Dean that the carbon
burnout in a forced draft stove might be an issue. On the other hand you can
have low velocities at the grate and higher velocities above the grate burnout
should be very good. The challenge is doing that in stoves that operate at low
power, poor air control, and burns with very high excess air. It would be
difficult to recirculate flue gas in as small stove. Even then you need lower
oxygen in the recirculating gas than you can get in a stove.
</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'></span> </p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'>Tom
</span></p>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif"; font-size: 11pt;'></span> </p>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style='font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>From:</span></b><span style='font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'> Stoves [<a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Crispin Pemberton-Pigott<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 18,
2014 2:48 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a class="ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [Stoves] Clinker Formation</span></p></div></div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";'>Otto that straw
pellet test will be important because it may have all its Cl and K in it so
the melting temp will be lowered. </span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";'></span> </p></div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";'>If processed
agri-wastes are to be an important fuel they will have to be accommodated by
the designer. </span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";'></span> </p></div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";'>Regards
</span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";'>Crispin
</span></p></div>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";'></span> </p></div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style='color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: "Calibri","sans-serif";'>BBM
2B567C3</span></p></div>
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<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style='font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>From:
</span></b><span style='font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>Otto
Formo</span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style='font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>Sent:
</span></b><span style='font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>Sunday, May
18, 2014 16:39</span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style='font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>To:
</span></b><span style='font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>Stoves
Bioenergylist</span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style='font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>Reply To:
</span></b><span style='font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>Discussion
of biomass cooking stoves</span></p></div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"><b><span style='font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>Subject:
</span></b><span style='font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; font-size: 10pt;'>Re: [Stoves]
Clinker Formation</span></p></div></div></td></tr></tbody></table>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="ecxMsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">Dean Still,<br>According to
Crispin and to our experience, the flames reaching the cooler pot, instantly
create char or black carbon - insufficient combustion create more PM and black
carbon........!?<br> <br>The fan driven Oorja, was tested here with
woodpellets, four years ago.<br>At full blast the "room" was soon covered in a
thin layer of soot and ash.<br>The cast iron combustion "chamber" was glowing
instantly- around 1000 - 1100 C.<br>What about ultra fine particles......??
<br> <br>Natural Draft gasifiers, are the way
forward................<br> <br>We will soon test the Peko Pe with staw
pellets and see the effects of clinker formation.<br> <br>Using Corn
colbs (agri-waste) as fuel, we noticed a temperature of 450 - 550 C at
the top of the flame and around 350 -400 C at the pyrolysis front.<br>At the
end of the burn, when most gases are utillized and the char starts glowing, we
can raech the temperature arond 900 - 1000 C.<br> <br>To avoid clinker
formation, we just removed the char , before it starts glowing, namely
biochar.......problem
solved?<br> <br>Otto<br></p></div></div></div></blockquote><br>
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