<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Ronald,<div><br></div><div>I was actually not saying do nothing, but rather trying to draw attention to the need to move beyond combustion if we wish to address the issue of excess CO2 in the atmosphere. Any conversation about new and improved stoves should look at the future as well as the present. I did not see that in the announcement for the Collaborative Stove Workshop. I only saw combustion. Did I miss something?</div><div><br></div><div>I am fully aware of the bang for the buck in charcoal and also fully aware that the market, at scale, for such does not yet exist. This makes the effort to fund commercial scale pyrolytic devices very difficult. Investors want to know what price you will get in the afternoon for the charcoal you make in the morning. Today, there is no reliable answer to that question - esp. if we are talking in terms of tons.</div><div><br></div><div>I am not sure what you mean about savings, as I tend to see a very distributed model working with local waste streams. I am not generally in favor of large centralized plants which might very well require the transport you mention. Further, the biomass does not have to be “dry” so long as it has a moisture content of 20% or less. I am not sure what you are basing your assumptions on, but they are not correct.</div><div><br></div><div>Of course, pellet mills that everyone likes do tend to be large and centralized and do require transport of raw material to the plant and finished product to the end user. How many ship loads of pellets go from North America to Europe? I suppose you would agree that, if transport is OK for wood pellets, then at least a similar degree of transport would be OK for biomass feed stock for pyrolysis?</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div>Jock</div><div><br></div><div><div>
Jock Gill<br>P.O. Box 3<br>Peacham, VT 05862<br><br>+1 (802) 503-1258<br><br>
</div>
<br><div><div>On May 21, 2014, at 1:31 PM, Ronald Hongsermeier <<a href="mailto:rwhongser@web.de">rwhongser@web.de</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">
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Dear Jock, <br>
It seems to me that you confuse mitigate and extract. Dean and John
seem to me to be looking for a marketable way to contribute positive
change to the renewable side of the things. Your logic seems to me
to be saying: "If you can't extract, don't do anything!" I think
that's at least wrong headed even within your logical framework.
Also, if you allow the neutral side of things onto the playing field
there may also be a market for the char -- maybe not a market you
like, but there's more bang for your buck in charcoal and you could
also figure in the savings on transport costs over against dry-raw
biomass.<br>
<br>
respectfully,<br>
Ronald von Bayrischradltraumtag<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 21.05.2014 18:33, Jock Gill wrote:<br>
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<div>Dean & John,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The simple fact is that no combustion device will ever remove
carbon from the atmosphere. If a fundamental problem is that
there is too much CO2 [carbon] in the atmosphere, then removing
carbon from the atmosphere is an essential imperative.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The most direct, simple and proven way to remove carbon from
the atmosphere is the pyrolysis of biomass. Therefore, what we
need are heating devices that are based on pyrolysis.
Combustion is both old school and not an answer to the
imperative of carbon removal.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For the record, Jerry Whitfield, who designed and
manufactured the first working wood pellet stove in 1984, has
now developed the designs for a pyrolytic parlor stove.
Unfortunately, at this time, there is no market for the carbon
[biochar] that such a stove would create. Until such time as
the imperative of removing carbon from the atmosphere is
recognized and valued, perhaps a significant carbon tax, there
is no way to commercialize pyrolytic devices in general, much
less for residential use. It may also be required that we
reject the old industrial era model of extraction and
exploitation and replace it with a model more early akin to
regenerative stewardship, with an eye towards a future that
could be vibrant, dynamic and abundant. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thoughts?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jock</div>
<div><br>
<div>Jock Gill</div>
<div>P.O. Box 3</div>
<div>Peacham, VT 05862</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: underline;
background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://google.com/+JockGill">google.com/+JockGill</a></span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">:>
Extract CO2 from the atmosphere! <:</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
Via iPad</div>
<div><br>
On May 21, 2014, at 9:59 AM, Dean Still <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
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<div dir="ltr"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px">Dear
friends,</span>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px">
Renewable energy technology is developing quickly to
mitigate global climate change. We don't have any time to
lose if wood and pellet heating technology is going to
compete amongst the renewable energy solutions.</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px">Pellet
stoves and then automated pellet boilers were a huge
technological step forward. We believe a next step may be
affordable, automated wood stoves to maximize the
potential of the stove and minimize its inefficiencies. </div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px">That
is why we are holding the <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://forgreenheat.blogspot.com/2014/05/collaborative-stove-design-workshop.html" target="_blank">Collaborative Stove Design Workshop</a> at
Brookhaven National Lab from <span class="" tabindex="0">Nov. 4 - 7</span>. Building off the
very successful Wood Stove Decathlon, we will test, assess
and help improve up to 6 automated biomass heating stoves,
who will be competing for a modest prize. Instead of a
large event open to the public, this will be an intensive
4 days for 30 stove professionals to push the envelope of
stove innovation.</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px">Aprovecho
is building a 'super-clean' biomass heating stove entry
based on cooking stove technology that is more advanced
than current heating stoves.</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px">John
Ackerly</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px">
Dean Still</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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