<div>Dear Kevin,</div>
<div>my daughter started a firm for selling non-polluting cookstoves using biomass based fuels. For the first five years, we focussed mainly on rural clients and lost money, till we realised that the the villagers in India did not want to use biomass based cookstoves. They saw the urbanites using LPG stoves, how convenient it was to cook with LPG and how cheaply it was being made available by the Government to urbanites. We now sell our products primarily to environmentally conscious urban rich and have started to earn some profits. </div>
<div>Yours</div>
<div>A.D.Karve<br><br></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 1:00 AM, Kevin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<div><font size="4" face="Calibri">Dear Tom</font></div>
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<div style="FONT:10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial;BACKGROUND:#e4e4e4"><b>From:</b> <a title="tmiles@trmiles.com" href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com" target="_blank">Tom Miles</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'</a> ; <a title="biochar-policy@yahoogroups.com" href="mailto:biochar-policy@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">'Biochar-Policy'</a> ; <a title="kchisholm@ca.inter.net" href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">'Kevin Chisholm'</a> </div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 11, 2014 1:06 PM</div>
<div style="FONT:10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> RE: [Stoves] [biochar-policy] World Population and Daily Income</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Kevin,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Immigration politics are for discussion on other lists but it is good to highlight this need and the biochar potential. The answers of course vary. As you well know a wide variety of solutions have been demonstrated and many are in production. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"></span> </p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font size="4"># Yes, many clever and practical solutions have indeed been developed, and have had excellent acceptance.</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font size="4"></font></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font size="4"># Another very interesting fact put forward in the video, is that there are a further 2.6 billion people earning between $2/day and the average Mexican wage. There thus seem to be three fundamental markets shaping up:</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font size="4">1: The "Wealthy Market: 1.6 Billion People (22% of World Population)</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font size="4">2: The "Middle Market", with incomes between average Mexican and $2 per day: 2.6 billion (36% of World Population)</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font size="4">3: The "Low End Market", with incomes less than $2 per day: 3 Billion (42% of World Population)</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font size="4"></font></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font size="4"># I don't know how to put these Markets on a common footing, specifically, if the "Low End Market" has an income of $2 per capita per day, (PCPD), what is the PCPD income for the "Middle" and "Wealthy" Markets? Perhaps this can be derived from data available through the World Factbook, </font><a href="https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/mx.html" target="_blank"><font size="4">https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/mx.html</font></a></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">These questions have been topics on the stoves and gasification lists for more than 18 years and on the biochar list for the last eight years. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"></span> </p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><font size="4"># It was not my intent to suggest that "I have discovered that there are poor people in the World."</font> <font size="4">Rather, I was impressed with the vividness of Beck's demonstration, and felt it would be helpful to the Stoves and Biochar Lists to perhaps better appreciate where they have the potential to make the greatest impact. The "Middle" and "Low End" markets have about 4 times the population of the "Wealthy Market", and are growing more rapidly.</font></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">In about 1996 Ron Larson was working with others on ceramic stoves that could also make charcoal. He brought us to focus on biochar stoves in about 2006. A great example of a biochar stove is the Estufa Finca that is being disseminated on coffee plantations in Costa Rica bySeachar.org. As with other stoves it is more than just the technology but the systems for providing or making the stove and continuous support and application of the char that makes the biochar stove work. In some cases it makes more sense to make char in a community kiln. Using the char for improving soil fertility for local food has been amply demonstrated at the individual stove level and the farm and community scales by Seachar, by Sai Bhaskar Reddy in India and many others. Microgasification with the TLUD a natural char maker and will be the topic of the upcoming Stoves Camp at Aprovecho in Oregon. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">As Ron has stated there are many sources. Many have been discussed on these lists. For those who are seriously interested see: <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Estufa Finca <a href="http://www.seachar.org/" target="_blank">www.seachar.org</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Geo <a href="http://www.e-geo.org/" target="_blank">http://www.e-geo.org/</a> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">TLUD <a href="http://www.drtlud.com/" target="_blank">http://www.drtlud.com/</a> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Microgasification </span><a href="http://bit.ly/1kLHuDs" target="_blank">http://bit.ly/1kLHuDs</a> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="#1f497d" face="Calibri"></font> </p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri"><font color="#1f497d" size="4"># Others who have made significant contributions to Stove and Biochar in the Middle and Low End Markets would include AD Karve, Crispin Pemberton-Piggot, Cecil Clarke, and Paul Oliver. </font></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><font color="#000000" size="4"></font><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><font color="#000000" size="4"># All the above are to be commended for their good work, and others who may have missed the significance of the 2nd and 3rd Markets are encouraged to expand their efforts into them, for maximum positive impact of their contributions.</font><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><font color="#000000" size="4"></font><u></u></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><font color="#000000" size="4">Best wishes,</font><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt"><u></u><font color="#000000" size="4">Kevin</font><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';COLOR:#1f497d;FONT-SIZE:11pt">Tom <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Tahoma','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"> Stoves [mailto:<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ronal W. Larson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 11, 2014 7:28 AM<br><b>To:</b> Biochar-Policy; Kevin Chisholm<br><b>Cc:</b> Discussion of biomass<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] [biochar-policy] World Population and Daily Income<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Kevin cc List<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span>I am not going to respond. There is close to zero connection between US immigration policy and your questions. I take your questions to be an excuse to bring in a non-germane video by a master propaganda artist.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span>I googled for Roy Beck and didn’t like what I saw. Others should look at what is said by an organization I admire (<a href="http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2009/spring/lie-down-with-dogs" target="_blank">http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2009/spring/lie-down-with-dogs</a>) <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Beck is listed as a mentor for my former Congressman, Tom Tancredo - who is as racist as they come (just came in second in the Colorado Republican Gubernatorial race). I can’t believe that Beck has any interest in increasing US Foreign Aid for topics like biochar and char-making stoves. The American people (even R’s) are overwhelmingly for the immigration reform bill already passed by the US Senate. It is held up by the Teaparty R’s - for what seems to me to be rcist reasons. Why US immigration policy is important to you, a Canadian, is unclear. I am not for increasing immigration; I am for passing this reform legislation - opposed by Tancredo, the Tea Party and Beck<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span> In any case, this list broke off from the stoves list - which is where your second question belongs, as I’m sure you know.<u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span>There is plenty on this list archives to answer your first question. You have continually knocked everything possible about biochar - and this seems in the same vein, although veiled.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Ron<u></u><u></u></p></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Jul 11, 2014, at 12:38 AM, 'Kevin' <a href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a> [biochar-policy] <<a href="mailto:biochar-policy@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank">biochar-policy@yahoogroups.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:14.65pt;BACKGROUND:white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:13.5pt">This video Clip</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Georgia','serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:14.65pt;BACKGROUND:white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:13.5pt"><a href="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LPjzfGChGlE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/embed/LPjzfGChGlE</a></span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Georgia','serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:14.65pt;BACKGROUND:white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:13.5pt">is about US Immigration Policy.</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Georgia','serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:14.65pt;BACKGROUND:white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Georgia','serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
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<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:14.65pt;BACKGROUND:white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:13.5pt">World population is about 7.2 billion people (<span> </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population</a> )</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Georgia','serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:14.65pt;BACKGROUND:white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Georgia','serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
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<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:14.65pt;BACKGROUND:white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:13.5pt">The Video Clip states that about 3 billion people earn an average of LESS than $2 per day. Expressed in different terms, 41.6% of the World Population earns less than $2 per day.</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Georgia','serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:14.65pt;BACKGROUND:white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Georgia','serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
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<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:14.65pt;BACKGROUND:white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:13.5pt">This brings up 2 interesting questions:</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Georgia','serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:14.65pt;BACKGROUND:white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Georgia','serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"> <u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
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<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:14.65pt;BACKGROUND:white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:13.5pt">1: ===> What can biochar do for these people, and what would it have to cost, to be affordable to them?</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Georgia','serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:14.65pt;BACKGROUND:white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:13.5pt">2: ===> What kind of stoves do these people really need, and how much must they be delivered for, in order for them to be a sensible investment?</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Georgia','serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:14.65pt;BACKGROUND:white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Calibri','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:13.5pt">Kevin</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Georgia','serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:14.65pt;BACKGROUND:white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif';COLOR:white;FONT-SIZE:10pt">__._,_.___<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
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<p style="LINE-HEIGHT:14.65pt;BACKGROUND:white" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:'Arial','sans-serif';FONT-SIZE:10pt">Posted by: "Kevin" <<a href="mailto:kchisholm@ca.inter.net" target="_blank">kchisholm@ca.inter.net</a>><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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