<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Exactly Bob,<div> ni safi sani </div><div>Richard Stanley</div><div><br><div><div>On Sep 3, 2014, at 1:21 PM, <a href="mailto:rbtvl@aol.com">rbtvl@aol.com</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><font color="black" size="3" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">
<div><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" style="background-color: transparent;"></font></div>
<div>We provide about four little trees to each home that buys a stove. the people like it very much. from an energy point of view it is really not important. but as a psychological act and motivation to think about the environment it is good.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Bob</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Robert Lange</div>
<div>the Maasai stoves and Solar Project</div>
<div> </div>
<div><a href="http://www.internationalcollaborative.org/">www.internationalcollaborative.org</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div style="color: black; font-family: arial,helvetica; font-size: 10pt;">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Richard Stanley <<a href="mailto:rstanley@legacyfound.org">rstanley@legacyfound.org</a>><br>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Sent: Wed, Sep 3, 2014 4:19 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] On Teddy's idea of providing tree seedlings with ones product or service ...<br>
<br>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_2_672dcc96-1e55-4920-b8ec-d6608e41411c">
<div class="aolReplacedBody" style="-ms-word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Hamjambo Mzee Teddy,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Providing tree seedlings with ones related ( or even unrelated ) product or service is a very good idea.</div>
<div>If everyone of the stove maker and briquette producers and trianing services out hter were to offer tree seedlings along with their product or service, what an impact it would have ! </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I will suggest it with the briquette trainers and producers whom we know.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks
<div>Richard Stanley</div>
<div><a href="http://www.legacyfound.org/" target="_blank">www.legacyfound.org</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>PS. Check out website news for recent raining and demonstration activities by the Lushoto based Marietta and Zaugia training team at the Nane Nane agricultural show in Morogoro Tanzania. And $5 USD to anyone who can fine a foreign face in the crowd.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Sep 3, 2014, at 12:00 PM, Cookswell Jikos wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Kirk - good thinking - I personally feel that if people are going to continue to use woodfuel to cook and heat with in the future, specifically charcoal and firewood - and even if its just for perhaps the occasional Sunday BBQ in 2040, let alone everyday, woodfuel should be looked at as one of many 'green' renewable energy options that compliment each other as household energy sources.
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>I think that biomass cookstove manufacturers should be at the forefront of investing in better holistic forestry practises and education for so many reasons; mainly of course as source of fuel for their stoves in future, but also for all the other positive trickle down ecosystem effects and resources (timber etc) forests provide us. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It would even appear, according to this article below that tree's actually even clean the air on a multi-billion dollar a year basis (<a href="http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/8279/20140728/trees-reduce-air-pollution-respiratory-problems.htm" target="_blank">http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/8279/20140728/trees-reduce-air-pollution-respiratory-problems.htm</a>) - to me this opens a fascinating line of thought for integrating long term urban planning options for cleaner enviroments, food and fuel production etc. in cities like Nairobi - but basically it sounds like we all need to plant soooo many more trees! </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So if everyone on this email listserve plants and looks after even just four $0.25c tree seedlings this year (stoves listserve card carrying members get free tree seedlings from Cookswell Jikos if you are in Kenya) - I guarantee you, it'll be one of the best non-direct cookstove investments you can make for your kids while they tinker with stoves in 2040. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers</div>
<div><br>
Teddy </div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><b>Cookswell Jikos</b><br>
<a href="http://www.cookswell.co.ke/" target="_blank">www.cookswell.co.ke</a></div>
<div><a href="http://www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos</a></div>
<div><a href="http://www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com/" target="_blank">www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com</a></div>
<div>
Mobile: +254 700 380 009 <br>
</div>
<div>Mobile: +254 700 905 913</div>
<div>P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi 00606, Kenya</div>
<div><img width="71" height="96" src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mFnK50B4oS8/UUrgJle8z9I/AAAAAAAAB_o/OUjLd7wrKPg/s133/Cookswell+Logo.PNG"><br>
</div>
<div><font color="#008000" face="Tms Rmn">Save trees - think twice before printing</font><font color="#008000" face="Tms Rmn" size="1">.</font><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 3, 2014 at 9:03 PM, kgharris <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kgharris@sonic.net">kgharris@sonic.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;">
<u></u>
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div><font face="Arial">Hi all,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">I was wondering what happens when all the people
whos lives are saved add their demand on an already stressed environment.
If 10,000 lives are saved that is 10,000 more mouths to feed and 10,000 more
people cutting down forests. That's today, 20 years from now it will be
even more as the saved children begin their own families, and in 40 years even
more. I asked a friend about this and he, being a retired high school
teacher, said that the stoves must be accompanied by education. Any
thought on what education would be good?</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial">Kirk Harris,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial">Santa Rosa, CA. USA</font></div>
<blockquote style="padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; margin-left: 5px; border-left-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); border-left-width: 2px; border-left-style: solid;" dir="ltr">
<div>
<div style="font: 10pt/normal arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228); font: 10pt/normal arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="marcpare0@gmail.com" href="mailto:marcpare0@gmail.com">Marc-Antoine
Pare</a> </div>
<div style="font: 10pt/normal arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b> <a title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</a> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div style="font: 10pt/normal arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 02, 2014 11:57
PM</div>
<div style="font: 10pt/normal arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b> [Stoves] health impact?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Hi everyone,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>A big confession: having tinkered with stoves for years, I never actually
looked into the numbers of stove health impacts. I'm trying to fix that, and I
hope you can help!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I mean, yes, I can wave my hands about PM and CO and four million
deaths!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But how many deaths (or DALYs) do you avert per stove? Or per 10,000
stoves? Or per 100,000,000?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I thought it would be an easy question to answer, but it's turning out to
be quite tricky to even ballpark.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Here is one interesting source. This is from the very recent webinar on
Kirk Smith's HAPIT tool. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href="http://www.cleancookstoves.org/resources_files/hapit-results-rwanda.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.cleancookstoves.org/resources_files/hapit-results-rwanda.pdf</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This report considers 25,000 households.</div>
<div>If you provide all of those households a rocket stove, you save only 0.75
lives per year.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If you take the GACC's target 100,000,000 households, that would
mean</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>0.75/25000*100000000 = <b>3,000 lives saved</b> worldwide
annually.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What am I missing there? This seems so small.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Some speculation:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kirk Smith mentions in the HAPIT webinar that even a small amount of
PM2.5 is still harmful. Perhaps biomass stoves just don't get the number low
enough?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think this would fit with the chart in the linked PDF that shows that
stoves only reduce deaths by <5% for indoor air pollution. A few times in
the HAPIT webinar, they mention "a lot of lives are still left on the
table."</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This also seems to agree with something I found in Christian L'Orange's
dissertation:</div>
<div><a href="http://digitool.library.colostate.edu///exlibris/dtl/d3_1/apache_media/L2V4bGlicmlzL2R0bC9kM18xL2FwYWNoZV9tZWRpYS8yNDYyOTQ=.pdf" target="_blank">http://digitool.library.colostate.edu///exlibris/dtl/d3_1/apache_media/L2V4bGlicmlzL2R0bC9kM18xL2FwYWNoZV9tZWRpYS8yNDYyOTQ=.pdf</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Figure 33 shows that Envirofit G3300 stoves only have a 3% (or so) impact
on "Adjusted Relative Risk" (of death)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please do not worry about hurting my feelings in correcting these
numbers. Am I thinking about this the wrong way around? Have I punched the
numbers in incorrectly? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, I would be very interested to read more good papers on health
impacts for stoves. It is all really quite interesting work. I feel bad that I
didn't look at it sooner.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Marc Paré</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<hr>
<div>
<div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing
list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email
address<br>
<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change
your List Settings use the web
page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for
more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
site:<br>
<a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<hr>
<div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<a></a>
<div align="left" color="#000000">No virus found in this
message.<br>
Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com/" target="_blank">www.avg.com</a><br>
Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus
Database: 4015/8145 - Release Date: 09/02/14</div>
<div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
<div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div>
</blockquote></div>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
<a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
<br>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
<a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
<br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="AOLMsgPart_3_672dcc96-1e55-4920-b8ec-d6608e41411c" style="margin: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, Sans-Serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<pre style="font-size: 9pt;"><tt>_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
<a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a>
</tt></pre>
</div>
<!-- end of AOLMsgPart_3_672dcc96-1e55-4920-b8ec-d6608e41411c -->
</div>
</font>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org<br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/<br><br></div><br></div></body></html>