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Dear Friends</div>
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Thanks to Ron for the itemised report. </div>
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LPG is the most expensive, least affordable, least distributable, most regulated, highest investment, highest distribution network cost, highest skill requiring, highest stove technology demanding cooking solution available on planet earth. </div>
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South Africa has 28 National standards dealing only with LPG stoves and fuels and distribution equipment. </div>
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Why wouldn't we promote LPG as a solution to indoor air pollution? Is it not the obvious way to go?</div>
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Greenhouse gases from charcoal making? Seriously? Is that what caused the 0.001 degree rise in the average global temperature over the past 18 years and one month? We should perhaps recall that wood literally grows on trees and is made of 90% CO2 (on a mass
basis). Unharvested, unused wood rots to methane. What is the comparative GHG number?</div>
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<span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial; text-align: initial;">The old saw about 'fan stoves' was discussed here a couple of days ago. If we don't get the message out about really clean burning non-fan stoves then we deserve what we hear. Right?</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial; text-align: initial;">Fan stoves are the most expensive options available requiring the most infrastructure to build and provide the highest cost cooking available while still using wood fuels. What will
the ND stove builders do about advertising themselves and their capabilities? If the TLUD crowd do not address the overall fuel consumption issue (using as much or more raw fuel per cooking session as an open fire) the fuel saving argument will be lost. I
have told you and told you. Being able to say 'I told you so,' does not please me at all. If you don't get out stoves that are clean and save FUEL (not 'energy') you are not getting out of the starting gate. </span></div>
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<span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial; text-align: initial;">Witness what is happening before your eyes. The improved stove sector is being taken over by the LPG and electricity sector. It will involve massive, beyond imagination loans to poor
countries for infrastructure and it hinges on saving a claimed 4+ million 'premature deaths' per year.</span></div>
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<span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial; text-align: initial;">Let's assume it is true. How much investment will be required per life saved? How does this compare with other opportunities to save lives? We will soon find out, I am sure.
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<span style="font-size: initial; line-height: initial; text-align: initial;">Most interesting. Yes indeed. </span></div>
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<div><b>From: </b>Ronal W. Larson</div>
<div><b>Sent: </b>Thursday, November 20, 2014 20:26</div>
<div><b>To: </b>Discussion of biomass</div>
<div><b>Reply To: </b>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</div>
<div><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves] GACC Stove Summit is LIVE NOW Thurs</div>
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<div>Paul cc List</div>
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<div>Thanks for the alert. I missed a few minutes at the beginning and during the meeting, but think I caught most. This is to hope to hear what others thought who might have listened in.</div>
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<div>Some of my thoughts (random order - lots missed as I didn’t keep notes; there are likely going to be tapes available):</div>
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<div><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>a. Was well run - a good cross section of stove-knowledgeable folk - many from outside the US. The head of US EPA, Gina McArthy, gave a strong talk; she has been active in stoves longer
than I realized (she and many others emphasized gender issues). She made brief mention of EPA stove testing, but I didn’t hear EPA’s name again.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>b. I was surprised and disappointed that a majority of the dialog was on switching to LPG stoves. I never once heard the terms “rocket” and “TLUD”. There were quite a few comments about
needing to make major changes in LPG industry to get a switch to LPG.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>c. Some also on switching to electrically powered stoves - but maybe a realization that will take more time. Electricity was not a focus here. LNG dominant probably because it is already
pretty widely used and is claimed to be clean. I need to learn more about LNG stoves - both emissions and costs. I never heard the words “alcohol stoves”.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>d. I never once heard the word biochar, and really little on climate (LPG and electricity not going to be climate-helpful). Kirk Smith noted that LPG cooking by the poor would not be a serious
climate issue. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>e. Kirk Smith made a very strong statement about how horrible traditional charcoal “mound” kilns are in releasing global warming gases. If anyone knows of specific GHG release data, I’d appreciate
hearing that. But overall, I heard little negative on the use of charcoal, except a few comments on deforestation. Kirk said wood burning stoves would have to be fan driven and use pellets to meet (recent, new) WHO stove (?) guidelines. These were referred
to frequently, but I don’t have a specific cite. Maybe <a href="http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs292/en/">http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs292/en/</a> and <a href="http://www.who.int/indoorair/en/">http://www.who.int/indoorair/en/</a>
?</div>
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<div><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>f. The term 4.3 million annual deaths was given often. This was an indoor air quality meeting. It would be a big help to compare LPG and tier 4 performance on particulates. Anyone have that?</div>
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<div><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>g. Only a few comments re solar cookers (and I think that sad).</div>
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<div><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>h. One whole panel on the ISO process and Tiers. I was surprised that one stove representative was saying they would have trouble getting to Tier 3.</div>
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<div><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>i. Another panel on financing. We may see some big money for stove companies. A good many comments on the need for large company involvement.</div>
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<div><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>j. Some good leads at <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cookstoves?src=hash">https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cookstoves?src=hash</a> .</div>
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<div><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>k. Tomorrow is the day for trying to build up a larger pot of funds. I think that is a closed (non-video) meeting.</div>
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<div><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>l. Some interesting data on how much better women are than men in selling improved stoves.</div>
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<div><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>m. One specialist (former student of Kirk Smith) on health aspects of stoves - with follow-up question asked by Nat Mulcahy. </div>
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<div><span class="x_Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"></span>n. Overall - this was an important stove meeting - but not much in line with dialog on this list (which never/rarely talks of LNG).</div>
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<div>Other thoughts?</div>
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<div>Ron</div>
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<div>
<div>On Nov 20, 2014, at 6:04 AM, Paul Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="x_Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Stovers,<br>
<br>
The Cookstoves Future Summit is LIVE on the internet today.<br>
<br>
Go to the
<blockquote type="cite"><a class="x_moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cleancookstoves.org/">http://www.cleancookstoves.org/</a></blockquote>
scroll to the Tweets section and read:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="x_header">
<div class="x_h-card x_p-author"><a class="x_u-url x_profile" href="https://twitter.com/cookstoves?original_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cleancookstoves.org%2F&profile_id=39516682&tw_i=535406937983430656&tw_p=embeddedtimeline&tw_w=357213549011009538"><span class="x_full-name"><span class="x_p-name x_customisable-highlight">Clean
Cookstoves</span> </span><span class="x_p-nickname" dir="ltr">@<b>cookstoves</b></span>
</a></div>
</div>
<div class="x_e-entry-content">
<p class="x_e-entry-title">The stoves & fuels exhibition @ <a class="x_hashtag x_customisable" dir="ltr" href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cookstoves?src=hash" rel="tag">
#<b>Cookstoves</b></a> Future Summit. Watch the livestream <a class="x_profile x_customisable x_h-card" dir="ltr" href="https://twitter.com/8">
@<b class="x_p-nickname">8</b></a>:30am ET <a title="http://ow.ly/EAEwG" class="x_link x_customisable" dir="ltr" href="http://t.co/aNdtfdiKPq" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">
<span class="x_tco-hidden">http://</span><span class="x_tco-display">ow.ly/EAEwG</span><span class="x_tco-hidden"></span><span class="x_tco-ellipsis"><span class="x_tco-hidden"> </span></span></a>
<a title="http://ow.ly/i/7EoZe" class="x_link x_customisable" dir="ltr" href="http://t.co/Rffs0R8zA7" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">
<span class="x_tco-hidden">http://</span><span class="x_tco-display">ow.ly/i/7EoZe</span></a></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
And access via one of the two URLs that are listed. Follow instructions to follow the account on "Livestream".<br>
<br>
Watch for messages to all Stoves via our Stoves Listserv.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="x_moz-signature" cols="72">--
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com/">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
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