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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Stovers and Stove proponents,<br>
      <br>
      First, I thank both Ron Larson and Crispin Pemberton-Pigott for
      their spirited discussion (and mutual challenges to each other and
      to all of us) about several key issues important to the GACC
      objectives.<br>
      <br>
      If you have not read through the discussion below, I encourage you
      to do so.   The higher up you are in the leadership of GACC and
      Standards for stoves, etc., the more important it is to read the
      disagreements and where they agree.<br>
      <br>
      Basically, I and others would like to read some comments / replies
      by leaders with authority and budgetary power about the various
      issues raised .   One of the many issues could be the degree to
      which the leadership is supportive about the work in the trenches
      about biomass stoves (or on LPG or LNG or electric stoves).   The
      GACC position about being "neutral about stove technology and
      fuels" takes on different meaning when it becomes big business
      (fossil fuels and big dams for electricity) vs. relatively
      localized biomass fuel and corresponding stoves.   <br>
      <br>
      There will continue to be a lot of "talk".    And maybe only years
      from now will we see that was actually being done in this decade
      that is now half over.<br>
      <br>
      Paul<br>
      <br>
      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD  
Email:  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>   
Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
      On 11/22/2014 3:03 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br>
    </div>
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear
            Ron<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><span
                style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><span
                style="color:#1F497D">></span></span>This is mostly
            to ask for more data.   <span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">OK<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <div>
            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:36.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">>>…</span><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">LPG is
                      the most expensive…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </div>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
                class="apple-tab-span">            </span><b>[RWL1:  
                Nothing like this was stated or implied during the
                webcast.  Can you provide some cites?</b><br>
              <br>
              <span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Cites
                of what? Is anything contested about this? LPG is a
                compressed gas sold at a pressure above 4 bars which
                requires that all aspects of its containment and sale
                (tanks, hoses etc) meet national or international
                standards and in the case of tanks (all the large ones)
                inspection every year by a qualified pressure vessel
                inspector.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
                      style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
                </div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
                      style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">South
                      Africa has 28 National standards dealing only with
                      LPG stoves and fuels and distribution equipment. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </div>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span">           
              </span><b>[RWL1a:   Anything there that should impact the
                future of what this list should be discussing?  Any
                specific cite?</b><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
                don’t think so. If you want to go into LPG stoves and
                fuel supply, bring money. It is not a game for the small
                player. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
                      style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
                </div>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          <div>
            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
                      style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">‎Greenhouse
                      gases from charcoal making? Seriously? Is that
                      what caused the 0.001 degree rise in the average
                      global temperature over the past 18 years and one
                      month? We should perhaps recall that wood
                      literally grows on trees and is made of 90% CO2
                      (on a mass basis). Unharvested, unused wood rots
                      to methane. What is the comparative GHG number?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </div>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span">           
                </span><b>[RWL3:   a)  Are you denying the Kirk Smith
                  claim on char-making providing a lot of (unnecessary)
                  GHGs?   A cite?<o:p></o:p></b></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
                  am not sure what you are after here. I know you to be
                  provocative so I will assume there is nothing behind
                  these questions. The fact is that Water vapour and CO2
                  and methane are GHG’s. Do you need a citation for
                  that?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b> <span class="apple-tab-span">                      
                  </span>b)  The .001 degree needs a cite.  <span
                    style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
                  think you can look at the GISS temperature chart at
                  woodfortrees.org. I am sure you are aware of the issue
                  of the lack of an increase in the average global
                  temperature in the past 18 years. It has been talked
                  about since at least 2005.  CO2 goes up, temperature
                  doesn’t. Why? James Hansen promised it would.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b>Focussing on 18 years air surface
                  temperature for only one of a dozen different energy
                  imbalance measures is not very helpful.  <span
                    style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Well
                  let’s look at that. What do you mean by ‘helpful’? You
                  mean the inconvenient truth is that CO2 goes up (a
                  lot) and temperature doesn’t is ‘off message’? I am
                  not ‘focussing on 18 years’ I am stating a fact. The
                  global temperature trend, starting now and looking
                  back until the trend is non-zero, comes to 18 years
                  and one month. This is hardly controversial.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><b>I see something almost every day
                  on 2014 likely having the highest global temperature
                  in the last 100-150 years.  <o:p></o:p></b></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">And
                  why not?  It is a fact – the temperature has been
                  rising at a rate of 0.6 degrees per century for about
                  200 years. The longest period without any rise has
                  been the last 18. This is likely to undermine the
                  value of stove program CO2 offset trading credits, do
                  you agree? The CO2 sensitivity is not what it was
                  assumed to be. I am sure you are aware that the
                  estimated temperature rise for a doubling of CO2
                  concentration was almost cut in half by the IPCC in
                  February this year. That cut the value of CO2 offsets
                  in half. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Focussing
                  on the ‘highest global temperatures in 150 years’ is
                  not helpful. The temperature 800 years ago was
                  significantly above what it is now. Focussing on the
                  resons why <i>would</i> by helpful.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b>                       
                  </b></span><b>c)  The issue about making char in the
                  field is mostly one of illegality - generally not
                  re-planting.  Are you arguing that present char
                  production is sustainable on average?<o:p></o:p></b></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Charcoal
                  production varies in sustainability from place to
                  place. Where is it illegal, generally speaking, it is
                  unsustainable. Where it is legal and regulated, like
                  South Africa, Swaziland, Rwanda and Haiti, it tends to
                  be sustainable. It used to be sustainable in Chad
                  before it was made illegal. Now it isn’t.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b>                       
                  </b></span><b>d)   Don’t understand your last question
                  on “comparative GHG number.  Can you rephrase?</b><o:p></o:p></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">What
                  is it you don’t understand? See the comment above:
                  water vapour, CO2 and methane are GHG’s. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
            <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
                      style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><br>
                      The old saw about 'fan stoves' was discussed here
                      a couple of days ago…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </div>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span">           
              </span><b>[RWL4:    I have heard this from more than Prof.
                 Smith.  I don’t recall this topic “a couple of days
                ago”.   Anyone able to give a specific cite?</b><br>
              <br>
              <o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Please
                see the archive here on fan stoves being the only clean
                way to burn biomass (Kirk says, and has said, for a
                number of years).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span">           
              </span><b>b)   Being part of the “TLUD crowd”, I have to
                remind you that being able to sell the produced char is
                unique in the stove world.  <span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">There
                is no need to remind me – I am on the look out for ways
                to turn that into a viable business. As you probably
                know I am not really a stoves person, but a
                microenterprise entrepreneur having created something
                like 15,000 work rural opportunities. I see selling
                charcoal as a great business opportunity. I doubt that
                it can be done by bringing wood to a city and making
                charcoal and selling it back to a rural community – we
                have discussed that before. I put numbers on it and
                challenged you to provide alternatives which you did
                not. It is unviable.  It may however work by taking
                agri-waste products and making something to sell. I
                assume it will work for rural Indonesia where sugar
                making (not cooking) is a major need for energy. In
                particular candle nut shells are strong enough when
                charred to ship a considerable distance.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b>Making money is more important than
                saving money for many of us.  <span
                  style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">That’s
                possible. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b>Using the char as biochar rather
                than selling it will make more sense for many (and is
                now being done in several char-making stove programs.<o:p></o:p></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
                think you will have to show the business case for
                biochar. Lloyd Helferty is working hard on that in
                Ontario.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b>           
                </b></span><b>You are perhaps saying that biomass for
                stoves is in perpetual short supply.  <span
                  style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
                said nothing of the sort. The UNFCCC however has a
                predisposition that a lot of biomass is ‘unsustainably
                harvested’. This is not the case in Indonesia virtually
                everywhere. There are rules for determining whether or
                not harvesting is sustainable. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b>Not true if we start planting
                instead of stealing feedstock.  The world will be a much
                better place with a big effort at reforestation.  On can
                have (must have) both increased stock and increased
                flows.<span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">This
                is easily accomplished on paper and quite difficult to
                achieve in practice in Africa. The issue is the
                ownership of land. Otherwise known as land rights.
                People will not protect land over which they have no
                control and from which they derive benefit at no cost.
                See “tragedy of the commons” in the UK.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><br>
              </b><span
                style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">>>‎The
                improved stove sector is being taken over by the LPG and
                electricity sector. It will involve massive, beyond
                imagination loans to poor countries for infrastructure
                and it hinges on saving a claimed 4+ million ‘premature
                deaths' per year.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span">           
              </span><b>[RWL6:   This is key.  This is the subject of my
                next message.  I am not yet ready to agree on “taken
                over” <span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Well,
                watch this space I guess. The ANSI team at the ISO
                meeting fought very hard to prevent the name of the
                Standard not to be changed from Clean Cookstoves and
                Clean Cooking Solutions, harder on that than anything
                else actually. Now we know why. They have a plan that
                goes far beyond improving biomass stoves. At the
                Guatemala meeting the issue of whether this was a
                biomass stoves standard (which it was clear most people
                thought they were working on) or ‘all domestic cooking
                stoves and all energy supplies’.  It was made perfectly
                clear by ANSI that they wanted to had a new
                international standard covering all cooking appliances,
                including electric induction heaters, hot places, LPG
                and so on. I am not sure they realised that there are
                already hundreds of regulations on these appliances. It
                cause quite a stir in the WG’s.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b>or “behind imagination loans”.  But
                yes the rationale is all on saved lives.  We on this
                list have not been making the needed case for not
                 being “taken over.”<span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
                warned a few weeks ago that there were forces much
                greater than the biomass stove interest group intent of
                using the cooking stove vehicle for their own purposes.
                I only received two (flippant) replies which may
                indicate the incapacity of this group to affect the
                future of their own ‘industry’.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><br>
              <span
                style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">>>How
                much investment will be required per life saved?  How
                does this compare with other opportunities to save
                lives? We will soon find out, I am sure. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span">           
              </span><b>[RWL7:   I am not aware that anyone has made
                this investment calculation.  <span
                  style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">If
                they have not, that is shameful.  How can you spend
                hundreds of millions of $ without knowing what the
                payback is? It is akin to spending that sort of money
                using a test method that has never been reviewed to show
                that it is telling us what we want to know. As you know,
                this is particularly upsetting to me as I have had to
                witness the waste of so much effort by so many people
                who were sincere and expectant. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b>I guess that the sellers of LPG
                should have little trouble finding the necessary funding
                - not needed from GACC.  Anyone know?  <span
                  style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The
                LPG vendors are not in a viable business situation
                outside certain particular locations and scale of sales.
                Outside that, they want subsidies. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b>What I remember from the finance
                part of the discussions was that funding would be
                heading to stoves, not the ability to add more LPG.  I
                think LPG burners are quite inexpensive already - and
                not much need for R&D.  (True?)<span
                  style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">It
                would be informative for anyone interested in LPG
                rollouts to look at Egypt, South Africa and Indonesia. 
                There are very particular circumstances in which it
                works without subsidy. For general use in a poor
                population, it is out of the question.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b>  The issue seems to be on cost and
                assuredness of supply.  But I need help here.  Anyone an
                expert on where the funding is apt to come from if LPG
                is really a major goal of any country?    <span
                  style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">See
                above. LPG’s ‘last mile’ is not only the problem of
                getting a stove to the cook, it is the perpetual problem
                of getting the full tank the last mile, again and again.
                It is not legal to take an LPG cylinder in many forms of
                public transport. The idea that this is a substitute for
                improved wood stoves is misplaced.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b>The average wood-consuming stove
                user is apparently apt to have more than one stove now.
                 Having and using a wood-version isn’t going to stop
                even if LPG stoves are in 100% of all the world’s homes.
                 There is plenty of work for this list.<o:p></o:p></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Well,
                we hope so, but it would not do us any good to support
                the meme that solid fuels are ‘inherently dirty’ and
                that LPG is the final solution. It is contradicted by
                the evidence. Why is this not known in the hallowed
                halls of Berkeley? Are they not keeping up?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span"><b>           
                </b></span><b>I am pretty sure that wood-consuming stove
                proponents will fail if they imply that saving any of
                the 4 Million lives is not worth the expense.  <span
                  style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
                haven’t heard anyone say the expense is unwarranted. The
                question is, how much and how much benefit. One of the
                strangest aspects of this argument in favour of
                ‘non-solid fuel solutions’ is the assumption that stove
                emissions have to be vented into the room. In order to
                improve indoor air quality – add a chimney! Good grief
                why is this so difficult to imagine?  There are only a
                few places (very concentrated populations) where IAQ
                would not be greatly improved by chimneys alone. One
                does not need ‘a fan stove’ to dramatically reduce
                exposure to indoor PM.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b>I doubt many believe that a switch
                to 100% LPG (or electricity) is going to happen in the
                near term.  There remain plenty of things on this list
                to do.</b><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Agreed.
                It will not happen soon because it would be a terrible
                waste of money compared with the other benefits that
                could be obtained for the same money spent on other
                health things. Chimneys are not expensive. Is that the
                problem? Too cheap? Too effective? Too easy?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">We
                need a frank discussion about this. But not having
                invited to the table, who will present these options?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
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</pre>
    </blockquote>
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