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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Crispin and Ron and all,<br>
<br>
I am delighted with the progress that is being made with the
Indonesian stove testing. Thanks for sharing some example
information. Here are several observations, not in any special
order, and not trying to prove any point of view. Just restating
what I see in the comments and data. (The data screen shots
might not be visible in the earlier message repeated below. If
needed, see Crispin's message dated 26 Nov 2014 to the Stoves
Listserv, Subject: [Re:] Standards for stoves......)<br>
<br>
1. A stove only needs to get one star (Indonesia system) to be
eligible to be included in the up-coming national program (first
with 2 pilot locations). The financial assistance will be less
for these 1 star stoves (compared to 2 and 3 star stoves), but the
important advertizing and awareness aspects of the project will
make these stoves known and shown.<br>
<br>
2. The people, the customers, those who ultimately count, will
know that a stove makes charcoal. Either the information will
tell them, or the functional stove will show them. And those
people will be able to determine (with a bit of advertizing help)
that although the stove cost X and fuels cost Y, there is a value
of Z for the resultant charcoal, whether for burning or for
biochar. And they will judge if the net gain is favorable or
not.<br>
<br>
3. So, getting at least one star is crucial, and Crispin has said
that some TLUDs can accomplish that. <br>
<br>
4. And Crispin gives us a peek at the data. I do not know the
stove except that it is a TLUD. It does the required cooking
task using 1174 grams of fuel which is Albasia Pellets at 7.2%
moisture content MC, which is 84.5 g of moisture, resulting in
1090 dry weight. <br>
<br>
5. And it yields 370 gram of char, which include some inert
materials that would be called ash if the char was burned away.
Internet says that such pellets have about 2% ash. 370 divided
by 1090 is 34% charcoal yield (dry weight basis). That is
somewhat high, indicating either some volatiles are still in the
char or some of the pellets were not completely pyrolyzed, or some
of both causes. Either way, that is fine. In their stove the
people have produced charcoal which may or may not have any value
in their cultural context. And if the household does one
additional but smaller cooking task with that stove, then at least
500 grams (at least half a kilogram, more than one pound) of char
can be produced per day per household. Times 365 days becomes
nearly 200 kg of char per household per year. 5 households
produce a ton of char. 5000 households produce one thousand tons
of char. And Indonesia could have 5 million such households,
making 5 million tons of charcoal each year. <br>
<br>
6. Note that the energy in the fuel consumed (that is, in the
1174 g of consumed Albasia pellets) is listed as 12.39 MJ/kg.
That number is considerably less than the 16 MJ/kg (or even 18
MJ/kg) common in much biomass. I do not know why. Just pointing
out something of interest.<br>
<br>
7. The tested stove was (is) made in Indonesia. Each applicant
for testing was allowed to specify what fuel was to be used in the
testing. Albasia wood is grown in Indonesia and its sawdust is
evidently used to make Albasia pellets. It is unlikely that any
applicant stove from outside of Indonesia would have picked
Albasia pellets as the fuel to be used in testing. But maybe
those A. pellets were used if locally produced pellets were
requested. Whatever the case, it will be interesting to see how
the other TLUD stoves performed, what fuel they used, etc.<br>
<br>
8. I have no problems with how the Indonesia testing is being
conducted. It is my impression (maybe from something in the
earlier documentation on the testing?) that after the initial
round of testing is completed and the pilots studies are underway,
that additional stoves (or same stoves but different fuels) will
be evaluated for inclusion in the national program. That makes
sense, and is similar to what the GACC is allowing as it moves
into its own second phase of activities. The world is not limited
to only the stoves that are available today. <br>
<br>
So, to Ron I say that the decision to treat resultant charcoal as
"no longer being the original fuel" is okay. It is one
interpretation. Just as the WBT procedure that give credit to
the energy in the charcoal is also one interpretation. It will
be nice when BOTH interpretations are clearly stated in the rest
results of any tested stove. But right now we have two points of
view that can each stir up some opposition, and neither one makes
efforts to explain the other interpretation.<br>
<br>
The Indonesia efforts have thus far been relatively less known
than other projects. But with some results coming out, we will
have more to discuss, and it is looking to be favorable and
representing progress about stoves.<br>
<br>
Happy Thanksgiving Day to everyone!! And remember to give thanks
every day wherever you are!!!!!!!<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<br>
On 11/26/2014 7:23 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Crispin:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-tab-span">
</span>If a TLUD is being tested, will char amount be
measured automatically?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Ron<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Yes
it is recorded in the analysis but is not reported unless
the customer wants to know.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">A
typical output from a very good TLUD looks like this:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">image not shown<br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">As
you can see the char mass is noted. The heat transfer
efficiency is <i>not</i> noted, largely because it has
been abused in the past by those pretending it represents
the fuel consumption and as a result is widely
misunderstood by people not in the product development
field. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The
heat transfer efficiency is just over 47% in the example
above. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The
burn cycle is the same one noted in the CSI-Indonesia
document:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">image not shown<br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">This
is the mass burned (brown), the smoothed power (purple)
and the cumulative power throughout the test (black) which
is 2.06 kW.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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