<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1417976410351_2839"> Hi Paul</div><div dir="ltr"> </div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1417976410351_2843">As I have stated previously on many occasions the air quality issue can be resolved more efficiently if a results based management approach is taken to address the problem. Sadly efforts to improve clean air have turned into a high tech stove race and holistic approaches have been marginalized. The current approach is great for the engineering olympics but its an ineffective sustainable development strategy to help poor people adopt affordable cooking systems that will enable them to breath cleaner air. </div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1417976410351_2955"> </div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1417976410351_2954">Roger Samson</div> <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div style="display: block;" class="yahoo_quoted"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font size="2" face="Arial"> On Saturday, December 6, 2014 10:51 PM, Paul Anderson <psanders@ilstu.edu> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container"><div id="yiv8043997586"><div>
<div class="yiv8043997586moz-cite-prefix">Stovers,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Five days and no comments? So I will re-state the two issues that
are presented in the original messages (below):<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
1. EVEN WITH CLEAN STOVES, the CO and PM levels are higher than
expected, with probable causes being the uses of multiple stoves,
lamps, etc. <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Therefore, regarding health, we could be finding that the efforts
to have ULTRA-CLEAN stoves (LPG, Solar, Electricity, biogas,
alcohol) could be sufficiently undermined by household/ambient
conditions that the improvements of the health of individuals are
not being attained, regardless of the cost of those stoves and
their fuels. <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
This is NOT a reason to stop efforts for clean stoves, but it
could be a reason to focus more on getting better "stove stacking"
with several reasonably improved stoves instead of putting too
much emphasis/financial resources on having an ultra-clean stove
placed in an setting without other improvements. <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
In other words, the recent increased recommended strict reduction
of emissions for health purposes might be sooooo tight that
broader changes in societal issues (life-styles such as stove
stacking, windows open, different light sources, etc) become more
important than having the ultra clean stoves.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
2. Chimneys are insufficiently understood and/or insufficiently
consistent in operation concerning emissions. And there is an
expectation of (or allowance of, or the modelling for) 25% of
emissions coming into to room. <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
That this value (25%) is arrived at as the average value between
1% and 50% seems very crude. IMO, a stove with a chimney that
lets more then 40% of emissions enter the room is hardly deserving
to be even called a chimney stove. Not even 20% should be
entering the room!!!!! <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Such an expectation or assumption in a model clearly works against
a stove with a good chimney arrangement and can favor a stove with
a bad chimney arrangement. <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
There could be more to this chimney story than is currently
evident. But until it is clarified, questions will continue to
be raised.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Paul<br clear="none">
<pre class="yiv8043997586moz-signature">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="yiv8043997586moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" ymailto="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="yiv8043997586moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com/" shape="rect" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 12/2/2014 9:07 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
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#yiv8043997586 </style><div><div id="yiv8043997586yqt75607" class="yiv8043997586yqt7318814549"><div class="yiv8043997586WordSection1">
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Thanks
Dean – that is very helpful.</span></div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Stovers:
there are some issues really worth discussing in this
document.</span></div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Levels of CO and PM higher than
expected in clean fuel studies</span></b></div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></b></div>
<div style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class="yiv8043997586MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-US"><span>9.)<span> </span></span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-US">Even allowing for
variability and differing circumstances, it is clear that
the measured levels of PM and CO in homes using clean fuels
are much higher than predicted. This does not undermine the
model, but points towards other explanations. These include
continued use of the traditional stove (even in stove/fuel
evaluation studies), along with the new one (known as
stacking), other emission sources in and around the home
(kerosene lamps, waste burning), and external sources such
as fuel combustion from other homes and other sources of
combustion contributing to outdoor air pollution entering
all homes. (pg.123)</span></div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">That
is of great concern to me because if the model is not
predictive, it means predictions of improvement are also not
going to be reasonably accurate. It does however open up a
new possibility which we are exploring at the moment in
Indonesia: the use of specialised solid fuel cookers for
dedicated tasks. TLUD stoves are highly suited to boiling
water in a single-function device. The use of such a
‘kettle’ combined with LPG would make for a very clean
combination. This should be explored as an intervention
strategy that can achieve much faster results than that
anticipated by ‘replace the stove and fuel’.</span></div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"> </div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Model based on 75% of pollution
going up the chimney</span></b></div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></b></div>
<div style="line-height: normal; margin-bottom: 0pt;" class="yiv8043997586MsoListParagraph"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-US"><span>10.)<span> </span></span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt;" lang="EN-US">The emissions model allows
for ventilation (with a flue or chimney) by assuming (based
on empirical data from several studies and countries) that
the fraction of total emissions entering the room lies
between 1% and 50% with a mean of 25% and standard deviation
of 10%. On average, therefore, it is expected that emissions
entering the room from vented stoves are 75% lower than with
unvented stoves. (pg.123)</span></div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Twenty
five percent? This is an unreasonable assumption. Good
heavens. No chimney stove operating like that would be used
in any self-respecting traditional home in Mongolia or
Indonesia or South Africa or Canada for that matter. No
wonder the chimney stove ‘forecast’ of their model emissions
into the home has such a poor result. </span></div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Was
this perhaps deliberate in order to argue that only LPG and
electricity can suffice? Seriously – why would such an
assumption be adopted, followed by a claim that chimney
stoves ‘can’t meet the emissions requirements into the
room’? They could easily be met by using a proper chimney.
I hope this is not the beginning of a trend to misrepresent
the performance of clean burning solid fuel stoves.
Gasifiers burn solid fuels – anything from peat to wood to
pellets. To label everything as inherently ‘dirty’ is
unreasonable. Charcoal is a very clean fuel in terms of PM
even in a bad stove. In a good one, the CO is really low as
well.</span></div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">I
was already worried when I saw in several places references
to ‘clean fuels’ as if the stove was not an inseparable
element of clean combustion. There is no such this as a
‘clean fuel’. Any fuel can be burned badly if it is put into
a crummy stove. </span></div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">As
always, if a stove is tested out of context, the results are
suspect. </span></div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Regards</span></div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Crispin</span></div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">+++++++++++</span></div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"> </div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal">Hi All,</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal">I've attached a "Cut and Paste" Summary
of the new WHO Guidelines.</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal">Best,</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv8043997586MsoNormal">Dean</div>
</div>
</div>
</div></div>
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