<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div>Dean, cc Paul, Crispin, List</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1. I can support your proposal on summarizing TLUD experimental history. But just as valuable would be a computer modelling RFP (presumably from GACC, so I add Ranyee as a new cc). There are hundreds of biomass combustion/gasification/pyrolysis folk out there who could bring highly sophisticated computer programs to bear right away. Finally the stove community has the money to do this. A TLUD has to be much easier to computer-simulate than any other stove.</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2. Some of the recent conversations have mentioned BLDD stoves - of which I know not one recent example on the cooking side (which this list is mostly about). To check that, I did a search on several approaches that grew out of the excellent Dutch work on BLDD stoves - and in particular by a Dutch transplant to Australia - Dr. Pet Verhaart. I was amazed to find that Tom Miles or daughter Erin Rasmussen must have found the early records of this list beginning in 1996, which I thought had been lost (see <a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/newsgroup-archive/stoves/1996-February.htm">http://www.bioenergylists.org/newsgroup-archive/stoves/1996-February.htm</a> for the first month history). If anyone knows some earlier communications on TLUDs on a different (but still Tom Miles) list, I hope they can report where they are.</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3. I suggest to Dean that this above source should be part of the “progress history. In that first month, we had contributions from Mark Bryden and Kirk Smith (but not on TLUDs), which I had not recalled. Heavy participation in that first month from Piet’s colleagues (Prasad, Moerman, etc) as well from Eindhoeven - especially on BLDD cook stoves. </div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>4. I have mentioned the name Tom Duke several times on this list - an Iowa farmer - who did several experiments (and one of the few lauding char-making stoves in that first month) that I have not seen repeated since - claiming good results even with zero-cost TLUDs. I’m sorry we have lost contact with Tom. </div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>5. I hope to read March 1996 in the near future; by the end of February, we had not yet found agreement that TLUDs would work.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks to Tom or Erin for finding this historical resource. And to those discussing BLDD stoves - which caused me to find what I thought had been lost.</div><div><br></div><div>Ron</div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On Dec 16, 2014, at 2:00 PM, Dean Still <<a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">Dear Paul and Crispin,<div><br></div><div>My hope is that someone will do the experiments to detail how the work with TLUDs, etc has resulted in progress and publish the results in a peer reviewed journal. It might take a while but it's a job worth doing. Maybe find an interested student or professor to instruct?</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br></div><div>Dean</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Paul Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Stovers,<br>
<br>
This is about Crispin's story and showing slow progress, but it is
progress. <br>
<br>
On 12/16/2014 12:51 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">There
are dozens of ways to make a stove work improperly. Paul and
I have tried all of them, I think. Paul told me that a TLUD
fuelled with wood could not be refuelled. We were on the
back patio of my home in Ezulwini Valley in Swaziland and he
went off to do something, leaving a small TLUD can-stove
running,. I fed in some wood vertically and it worked just
fine. I continued to do so and it continued to run long
after it should have gone out. Thus I proved to myself (and
Paul) that TLUD’s can be refuelled but not too much at a
time. OK, that was valuable and contradicted received
wisdom. <br>
</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
His story is correct. I remember it well (now that I have been
reminded). But it also tells us something about the progression of
our science. <br>
<br>
Back then, the importance of the MPF (Migratory Pyrolytic Front) had
not been realized. What Crispin did then in 2002 was what
BP-Oorja, Biolite and Philips and others did years later. They
were all trickle feeding additional fuel into the TLUD well above
the pyrolytic zone. Heat from below was (and still is, if you do
it) sufficient to pyrolyze the new fuel by heat WITHOUT the small
flames of the pyrolytic front at that fuel. The char can be fine,
but probably a little different (not made at the higher temperatures
of the MPF). <br>
<br>
And when the MPF reached the bottom, and with new fuel placed on top
of the char (not into the hot zone), the unit switched over to
operating with Bottom Burning (BB) as a rather normal UpDraft
gasifier. And that leads to higher temperatures in the bottom (air
coming onto charcoal) and the need for the different materials (cast
iron, ceramics, special metals) to protect that hot zone.<br>
<br>
As I have written in "Micro-gasification Terminology: An
Instructional Summary of MG", available at my website. See:
<a href="http://www.drtlud.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/micro-gasification-terminology-14nov2013.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.drtlud.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/micro-gasification-terminology-14nov2013.pdf</a>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Therefore, there are actually two types of
TLUD (device name) gasifiers, one being TLUD-MPF and the other
being TLUD-BB. The two types are quite distinctive in operation,
and deserve separate recognition and study. The common usage of
the “TLUD” name today means more than the TL of “Top-Lit” can
signify. ...... snip ... In essence, TLUD is a name for the small
updraft gasifier processes/stoves and is not a description of what
process (MPF or BB) is actually happening. However, we expect that
in common usage, the TLUD name will designate TLUD-MPF, unless the
UD-BB mode is specified.</blockquote>
However, many people continue to ignore the transition from MPF to
BB. Back in 2002 I had no clue about this. Now I consider it
essential knowledge for understanding the variations within
micro-gasification technology. (Note that I wrote
"micro-gasification technology" and not "TLUD technology.")<br>
<br>
I repeat:
<blockquote type="cite">However, we expect that in common usage, the
TLUD name will designate TLUD-MPF, unless the UD-BB mode is
specified.</blockquote>
Of course I can only suggest and request. People will do what they
want to do, sometimes unfortunately.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a>
Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com/" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
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