<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Crispin,<br>
<br>
You are entitled to your opinions. Expressing them helps people
see different points of view. And there are so many variations
that no lexicon would ever be complete.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 12/16/2014 10:21 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:COL401-EAS39913EDE5BD65572388DB47B16C0@phx.gbl"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=ISO-8859-1">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered
medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Consolas;
panose-1:2 11 6 9 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0mm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
pre
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted Char";
margin:0mm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier New";
color:black;}
span.HTMLPreformattedChar
{mso-style-name:"HTML Preformatted Char";
mso-style-priority:99;
mso-style-link:"HTML Preformatted";
font-family:Consolas;
color:black;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
span.EmailStyle20
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:612.0pt 792.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear
Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I
think this is an important modification of the fuel feed
story that is worth noting.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">>></span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
fed in some wood vertically and it worked just fine. I
continued to do so and it continued to run long after it
should have gone out. Thus I proved to myself (and Paul)
that TLUD’s can be refuelled but not too much at a time.
OK, that was valuable and contradicted received wisdom. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">></span>What
Crispin did then in 2002 was what BP-Oorja, Biolite and
Philips and others did years later. They were all trickle
feeding additional fuel into the TLUD well above the pyrolytic
zone. <span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">This
is not what I did. It is possible to make a gasifier that
does not have an MPF. Feeding such a device that has
vertically stacked fuel bed is quite possible. I realise
this is not the same thing, but we should not be diverted
into thinking there is only one way to make a gasifier. The
fuel is tucked in alongside the other (charcoaling) fuel and
it works quite well. It was not anything like an attempt to
put fuel on top of a packed bed, if you get my drift.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">></span>And
when the MPF reached the bottom, and with new fuel placed on
top of the char (not into the hot zone), the unit switched
over to operating with Bottom Burning (BB) as a rather normal
UpDraft gasifier. <span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Well,
be careful here. It depends on how the fuel is patterned. If
it is not in a packed bed, it can gasify if the air is
sufficiently under control. Remember that gases can be
produced with no air at all (in a retort) so the switch from
an MPF to a gasifier is not necessarily to a bottom-lit
updraft config.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">As I have written in "Micro-gasification
Terminology: An Instructional Summary of MG", available at my
website. See: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.drtlud.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/micro-gasification-terminology-14nov2013.pdf">http://www.drtlud.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/micro-gasification-terminology-14nov2013.pdf</a>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Therefore, there are actually two types
of TLUD (device name) gasifiers, one being TLUD-MPF and the
other being TLUD-BB. <span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0mm;margin-right:36.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:0mm"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0mm;margin-right:36.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:0mm"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Well,
I don’t agree that it is a TLUD if it is burning at the
bottom. It has ceased to be top lit if the combustion is
taking place at the bottom. I suspect the misdirection is
caused by a desire to force the combustion into a
pre-defined set of modes. The modes should instead
describe the combustion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The two types are quite distinctive in
operation, and deserve separate recognition and study. The
common usage of the “TLUD” name today means more than the TL
of “Top-Lit” can signify. ...... snip ... In essence, TLUD
is a name for the small updraft gasifier processes/stoves
and is not a description of what process (MPF or BB) is
actually happening. <span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0mm;margin-right:36.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:0mm"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:0mm;margin-right:36.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;margin-left:0mm"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Just
as I said. It certainly <i>is supposed to be</i> a
description of what is happening. What would be the point
of calling something a crossdraft burner if it was not
burning crossdraft? And vise versa.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">However, we expect that in common usage,
the TLUD name will designate TLUD-MPF, unless the UD-BB mode
is specified.<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">></span>However,
many people continue to ignore the transition from MPF to
BB. <span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">This
is still a limitation on the ‘definitions according to Paul’
instead of describing what is taking place. There is an
assumption in the statement that we are burning chipped
fuel. That limited view cannot be allowed to overtake and
limit all the possible configurations. Paul, I think as
someone very interested in classification you should address
this and come up with a more complete lexicon.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I repeat: <o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">However, we expect that in common usage,
the TLUD name will designate TLUD-MPF, unless the UD-BB mode
is specified.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Paul,
that is currently your opinion and it is incomplete and
inadequate. We can’t accept something that arbitrary. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">First,
there are at least 4 variations, not 2: TLUD with MPF, MPF
converting to BLUD, retort, and retort with at least some
air. All make combustible gas. What was happening on the
porch was the last of the 4.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Now
what?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>