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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Dear Erin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I think Berkeley has been looking into the limitations of the test and maybe be moreso, the equipment sets people are using.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Marcelo Gorritty reported to the meeting at CAU in Oct-Nov (Beijing) that he had run a Monte Carlo simulation of 100,000 WBT’s to see what the inherent variability was and he has a paper forthcoming about that effort. It is valuable.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>It is that sort of contribution we need for analysing testing methods and systems. I have tried whining and complaining to the authors and that doesn’t work. Everyone likes their own methods. That is not good enough, even for government work. </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>J</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Hi Crispin and all, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>One of the groups of talks that I very much enjoyed were not on the official schedule, and they were a very thoughtful series of critiques of the current WBT, CCT and KPT tests by Nelson from CREEC and also Sam from Aprovecho. It was encouraging to see the thoughtful engagement of both the strengths and the limitations of the tests, and that they'd very much like the conversation about the limits and conditions of the test to be included along with the results. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I need to sit down and write up my impressions. It was wonderful to see people - and it was nice to see some great information about stove use and adoption along with the technical conversations about reducing particulates. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>- Erin Rasmussen<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><a href="mailto:erin@trmiles.com">erin@trmiles.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0mm 0mm 0mm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> Stoves [<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Crispin Pemberton-Pigott<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 26, 2015 4:42 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Report #1 from ETHOS meeting<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Dear Bodie<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Please take these performance numbers with a grain of salt. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Three of the metrics have no physical basis in reality and several of the others are misleading. For the char making TLUD's the 'fuel consumption' metric is highly misleading to the tune of >200%. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Marc Park pointed out at ETHOS that in a village studied where all users had an 'improved stove and used them religiously' there was no net fuel saving. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Before using a performance metric for comparison check first if it is telling you what you think it is (or have been told it is). <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Frankly, we don't really know how improved stoves compare in performance, for the most part. The ISO and the South-South Sustainable Stoves Group are both working on cleaning up this situation because it is wasting a lot of time, social capital and money.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Regards <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Crispin <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Wow! This is a great resource, Christa! <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>I'm really curious about the StoveTec TLUD -- does anyone know why it had/has such incredible performance? And why is it not in production now (as the document says)? I would love to know more about it.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Bodie<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 11:00 AM, CHRISTA ROTH <<a href="mailto:stoves@foodandfuel.info" target="_blank">stoves@foodandfuel.info</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Huck, you can get it either at this link: GIZ-HERA manual microgasification <a href="https://energypedia.info/wiki/File:Micro_Gasification_2.0_Cooking_with_gas_from_dry_biomass.pdf" target="_blank">https://energypedia.info/wiki/File:Micro_Gasification_2.0_Cooking_with_gas_from_dry_biomass.pdf</a> or on the drtlud website. <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>have fun reading<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>christa<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>Am 24.01.2015 um 13:03 schrieb Huck Rorick <<a href="mailto:huckrorick@groundwork.org" target="_blank">huckrorick@groundwork.org</a>>:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Where is Christa’s “Microgasifier” compendium downloadable from?</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Huck</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a name="x_14b24bd5e6c0d266__MailEndCompose"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span></a><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> Ronal W. Larson <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>rongretlarson@comcast.net</span></a>><br><b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 24, 2015 1:57 AM<br><b>Subject:</b> [Stoves] Report #1 from ETHOS meeting</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=xmsonormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0mm;margin-right:0mm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0mm;background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br>List:<br><br> A pretty good crowd (two, three dozen to start, and doubling [?] by end) for the Stove 101 learners session from 4-6. Christa Roth, Dean Still, and Dale Andreatta all did great jobs. Roth used parts a new more polished version of her “Microgasifier” compendium (downloadable; highly recommended). Dean showed 3-4 brand new stoves that are just beginning to be field tested (all types, not only rockets). Dale gave overview of terms, especially testing.<br><br> Buffet dinner (paid for I think by Aprovecho) until 7.<br><br> Slide shows and some videos until maybe 9 - with the crowd continually growing (maybe up to 2/3 of registrants?). <br><br>Speakers were <br> Dale A. (on Sanitation) <br> Christa R. on some of her work in Africa <br> Christa has been working with a Senegalese [maybe an engineer - Andre] who gave a full Ppt (partly in French) on their work - largely on charcoal using and microgasifier stoves); <br> Paul Anderson (short - on Gary Larson stove cartoon); <br> Sebastian Africano of Trees, Water & People - on their activities - mostly in Central America; <br> Adrian Padt of Durban, SA. A clever Rocket design that can be shipped flat (stamped stalnless; about 5000 sold in 2013, ten times as many last year); <br> Jon Anderson introduced video from Rebecca Vermeer of Phillipines and then his and wife Flip’s work on ceramic ovens.<br> Gregory Egan on products with charcoal from Bamboo<br><br>Apologies for brevity and any errors. Meeting off to a good start. Seen lots of friends and many not yet seen.<br><br>Ron<br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:13.5pt'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=EN-US><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><br><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US>-- <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US><br><span style='color:#666666'>Bodie Cabiyo</span></span></b><span lang=EN-US> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#666666'>Professional: <a href="http://carbonalternatives.org" target="_blank">carbonalternatives.org</a></span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='color:#666666'>Personal: <a href="http://concentricchange.wordpress.com" target="_blank">concentricchange.wordpress.com</a><br></span><span lang=EN-US><br><b><u><span style='color:#274E13'>Food for Thought:</span></u></b><i><br>"A mountain is composed of tiny grains of earth. The ocean is made up of tiny drops of water. Even so, life is but an endless series of little details, actions, speeches, and thoughts. And the consequences whether good or bad of even the least of them are far-reaching."</i><br>- Sri Swami Sivananda<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>