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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-CA link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>I have no idea. Is Marc still subscribed to this list?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Crispin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Dear Crispin - <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Could you share more information about this and why it there has been no net fuel savings? <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>''<span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Marc Park pointed out at ETHOS that in a village studied where all users had an 'improved stove and used them religiously' there was no net fuel saving.'' </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Very interested to hear your thoughts, </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Teddy </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b>Cookswell Jikos</b><br><a href="http://www.cookswell.co.ke" target="_blank">www.cookswell.co.ke</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com" target="_blank">www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Mobile: +254 700 380 009 <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Mobile: +254 700 905 913<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi 00606, Kenya<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 width=71 height=96 id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mFnK50B4oS8/UUrgJle8z9I/AAAAAAAAB_o/OUjLd7wrKPg/s133/Cookswell+Logo.PNG"><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Tms Rmn",serif;color:green'>Save trees - think twice before printing</span><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Tms Rmn",serif;color:green'>.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0mm'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Dear Bodie<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Please take these performance numbers with a grain of salt. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Three of the metrics have no physical basis in reality and several of the others are misleading. For the char making TLUD's the 'fuel consumption' metric is highly misleading to the tune of >200%. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Marc Park pointed out at ETHOS that in a village studied where all users had an 'improved stove and used them religiously' there was no net fuel saving. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Before using a performance metric for comparison check first if it is telling you what you think it is (or have been told it is). <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Frankly, we don't really know how improved stoves compare in performance, for the most part. The ISO and the South-South Sustainable Stoves Group are both working on cleaning up this situation because it is wasting a lot of time, social capital and money.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Regards <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Crispin <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>Wow! This is a great resource, Christa! <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>I'm really curious about the StoveTec TLUD -- does anyone know why it had/has such incredible performance? And why is it not in production now (as the document says)? I would love to know more about it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>Bodie<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>On Mon, Jan 26, 2015 at 11:00 AM, CHRISTA ROTH <<a href="mailto:stoves@foodandfuel.info" target="_blank">stoves@foodandfuel.info</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0mm 0mm 0mm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0mm'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>Huck, you can get it either at this link: GIZ-HERA manual microgasification <a href="https://energypedia.info/wiki/File:Micro_Gasification_2.0_Cooking_with_gas_from_dry_biomass.pdf" target="_blank">https://energypedia.info/wiki/File:Micro_Gasification_2.0_Cooking_with_gas_from_dry_biomass.pdf</a> or on the drtlud website. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>have fun reading<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>christa<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>Am 24.01.2015 um 13:03 schrieb Huck Rorick <<a href="mailto:huckrorick@groundwork.org" target="_blank">huckrorick@groundwork.org</a>>:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Where is Christa’s “Microgasifier” compendium downloadable from?</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Huck</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><a name="14b26458ae88adcf_x_14b24bd5e6c0d266__Mai"><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span></a><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> Ronal W. Larson <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>rongretlarson@comcast.net</span></a>><br><b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, January 24, 2015 1:57 AM<br><b>Subject:</b> [Stoves] Report #1 from ETHOS meeting</span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0mm;margin-right:0mm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0mm;background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br>List:<br><br> A pretty good crowd (two, three dozen to start, and doubling [?] by end) for the Stove 101 learners session from 4-6. Christa Roth, Dean Still, and Dale Andreatta all did great jobs. Roth used parts a new more polished version of her “Microgasifier” compendium (downloadable; highly recommended). Dean showed 3-4 brand new stoves that are just beginning to be field tested (all types, not only rockets). Dale gave overview of terms, especially testing.<br><br> Buffet dinner (paid for I think by Aprovecho) until 7.<br><br> Slide shows and some videos until maybe 9 - with the crowd continually growing (maybe up to 2/3 of registrants?). <br><br>Speakers were <br> Dale A. (on Sanitation) <br> Christa R. on some of her work in Africa <br> Christa has been working with a Senegalese [maybe an engineer - Andre] who gave a full Ppt (partly in French) on their work - largely on charcoal using and microgasifier stoves); <br> Paul Anderson (short - on Gary Larson stove cartoon); <br> Sebastian Africano of Trees, Water & People - on their activities - mostly in Central America; <br> Adrian Padt of Durban, SA. A clever Rocket design that can be shipped flat (stamped stalnless; about 5000 sold in 2013, ten times as many last year); <br> Jon Anderson introduced video from Rebecca Vermeer of Phillipines and then his and wife Flip’s work on ceramic ovens.<br> Gregory Egan on products with charcoal from Bamboo<br><br>Apologies for brevity and any errors. Meeting off to a good start. Seen lots of friends and many not yet seen.<br><br>Ron<br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</span></a></span><span lang=EN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:13.5pt;background:white'><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><br><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><br><span style='color:#666666'>Bodie Cabiyo</span></b> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#666666'>Professional: <a href="http://carbonalternatives.org" target="_blank">carbonalternatives.org</a></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:#666666'>Personal: <a href="http://concentricchange.wordpress.com" target="_blank">concentricchange.wordpress.com</a><br></span><br><b><u><span style='color:#274E13'>Food for Thought:</span></u></b><i><br>"A mountain is composed of tiny grains of earth. The ocean is made up of tiny drops of water. Even so, life is but an endless series of little details, actions, speeches, and thoughts. And the consequences whether good or bad of even the least of them are far-reaching."</i><br>- Sri Swami Sivananda<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>