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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Paul,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I respectfully disagree. Two stoves are
burning at the same fire power and one has better heat transfer
to the pot. The water in the better heat transfer stove will be
hotter because less heat is lost, producing more steam and lower scores.
The better heat transfer stove will have to be turned down to a lower
power level to keep the pot the same temperature as the worse heat
transfer stove. That is the whole reason for improving heat transfer
into the pot, to allow a lower power level for the same cooking ability.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>The thing which has been shown about the WB
simmering test is that it does not work if each stove has it's own seperate
simmering temperature and steam production. It will work if all
stoves are adjusted to a fire power that produces the same simmering
temperature and steam production for all tests. Then
the lower a stoves fire power and fuel use the better the
score, and no punishment for a more efficient stove. Keeping the simmering
temperature and steam production the same for all stove tests allows meaningful
comparisons between stoves and good protocol for tier ratings.
</FONT><FONT size=2 face=Arial>The results of keeping the temperature the same
will help the stove designer because different designs can then be compared with
each other on equal basis, and the more efficient design, balanced with cost,
can be chosen.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I must agree with Dean Still on this.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Kirk Harris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
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dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=psanders@ilstu.edu href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">Paul Anderson</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 15, 2015 7:30
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] Examples of results
of simmer efficiency Re: [Ethos] Additional presentations at ETHOS 2015</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=moz-cite-prefix>Kirk,<BR><BR>Your comment contains one incorrect
statement:
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><FONT size=2 face=Arial>The stove which gets
more transfer of the heat into the pot may cause more steam
if it cannot turn down to a lower power level than the lesser
stove, but that means that the two simmering temperatures are
different.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial>Essentially there
is only one simmering temperature that is allowed, which is to be never more
than 6 deg C </FONT></FONT>lower than the boiling point. If local
boiling point is 100 C, then never less than 94 C, and probably best to keep
the temperature of the water at about 97 C. <BR><BR>But even a
roaring fire cannot raise the temperature above the boiling point.
So the difference in the TEMPERATURE OF THE WATER is of little consequence,
being about 3 deg C. And remember that <U>the purpose or objective of
simmering</U> is to maintain the temperature. The purpose is NOT
to minimize the amount of evaporated water, which is only a poor reflection of
how much fuel is used. <BR><BR>Please also see my next message,
that is addressed to Phillip and Dean who have exchanged messages
recently.<BR><BR>Paul<BR><PRE class=moz-signature cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</A>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</A></PRE>On
2/15/2015 6:41 PM, kgharris wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid:2FD178EF9CDE4E7384A9EF4DA4BF8B8F@phyllisPC type="cite">
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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>All,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>I am not understanding why the WBT is invalid
if the simmer temperature is held the same for all stoves. The stove
which gets more transfer of the heat into the pot may cause
more steam if it cannot turn down to a lower power level than the
lesser stove, but that means that the two simmering temperatures are
different. Dean is talking about the test simmering
temperature being the same for all stoves. The stove that gets
more heat transfer into the pot will need more turn-down than the
lesser stove in order to simmer at the pre-choosen test
temperature. That is the whole reason for improving the heat transfer
into the food. To be able to use lower power levels, less fuel, and
fewer emmissions to cook with. The two capabilities need to
evolve together, and both are improvements which can enhance a
good field usable stove. Also simplicity of construction and ease of
use are important qualities which need consideration and perhaps some kind
of metrics for measurements.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Kirk Harris</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial>Santa Rosa, CA. USA</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=deankstill@gmail.com href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Dean Still</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, February 15, 2015 1:35
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] Examples of
results of simmer efficiency Re: [Ethos] Additional presentations at ETHOS
2015</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Dear Philip,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>The Low Power test works well when the fuel use is normalized using a
set simmering temperature. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Sam and I are writing up some characteristics of the WBT and I'll
post the paper here. Lots of work to do and I look forward to our
continued collaboration.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Best,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Dean</DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 11:43 AM, Philip Lloyd
<SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:plloyd@mweb.co.za" target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">plloyd@mweb.co.za</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV lang=EN-US link="blue" vlink="purple">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Dear
Dean</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Crispin
said it well:<BR>“</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">The three
low power metr</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">ics are
invalid. The variables selected are inappropriately chosen. The
calculated results are misleading and contrary to any claim [that] they
provide guidance for product development or selection. We have to move
on.” </SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">I have
looked at the simmering metrics in WBT 4.3.2 and can only concur.
That is why I do not think we should waste much more time arguing about
them – they are fundamentally wrong. Yes, stove designers need to be
concerned with simmering and turndown; no, the WBT simmering metrics do
not provide them with guidance, and can be positively misleading, which
is worse.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Kind
regards</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Philip
Lloyd</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </P>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Stoves
[mailto:<A href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Dean Still<BR><B>Sent:</B> 15 February 2015
06:38<BR><B>To:</B> Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] Examples of results of simmer
efficiency Re: [Ethos] Additional presentations at ETHOS
2015</SPAN></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Dear Prof Loyd,</P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>As I pointed out, when the stoves do the same work
(hold the water at 97 C, for example) the stove with greater heat
transfer efficiency scores better. Simmering tests are important and
simmering is an important part of cooking.</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>The ISO process is creating new history and
approaches to old problems. Whatever emerges will certainly be
defensible as the new approaches are forged by consensus.</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Best,</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Dean</P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 12:58 AM, Philip Lloyd <<A
href="mailto:plloyd@mweb.co.za" target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">plloyd@mweb.co.za</A>> wrote:</P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I
am concerned that this is turning into a very fruitless
discussion.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">On
fundamental grounds the simmering test does not provide anything
meaningful. Crispin has demonstrated that rigorously, and others
have pointed out that the test can score an efficient stove poorly and
an inefficient stove well, so it does not provide any useful
measure. To go on defending the indefensible does not make sense,
even if it did accentuate the need for turndown – but that need was
always there, it was not the product of the WBT.</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">We
need defensible measures of stove performance. Can we please turn
our attention to developing those, and leave the indefensible to
history?</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Prof
Philip Lloyd</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Energy
Institute</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Cape
Peninsula University of Technology</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">PO
Box 652, Cape Town 8000</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><A
href="Tel:021" target=_blank moz-do-not-send="true">Tel:021</A> 460
4216</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Fax:021
460 3828</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Cell:
083 441 5247</SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Stoves
[mailto:<A href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Paul Anderson<BR><B>Sent:</B> 15 February 2015
02:26<BR><B>To:</B> Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] Examples of results of simmer
efficiency Re: [Ethos] Additional presentations at ETHOS
2015</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>Dear
Dean, my reply is below:</P><PRE>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD </PRE><PRE>Email: <A href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target=_blank moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</A> </PRE><PRE>Skype: paultlud Phone: <A href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" target=_blank moz-do-not-send="true">+1-309-452-7072</A></PRE><PRE>Website: <A href="http://www.drtlud.com" target=_blank moz-do-not-send="true">www.drtlud.com</A></PRE>
<P class=MsoNormal>On 2/14/2015 1:06 PM, Dean Still wrote:</P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Dear Paul, </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>To do well on the Low Power Specific Consumption
metrics the stove has to have a good Turn Down Ratio. In other words,
the stove has to have high power and low
power.</P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>I totally agree with
this. But it is not the whole story of LPSC.
Other factors influence LPSC, especially concerning the measurement of
the variables that are used to make the calculation. These
can include the insulation of the pot (incl. skirts), lid on pot, pot
characteristics such as size, quantity of water in the pot at the start,
and at the finish.</P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Specific Consumption is based on how much energy was
used to create simmered water. </P></DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>Simmered water is not
created. It was already hot at the start of the simmer phase
of testing. We are interested in how much energy is used to
MAINTAIN the required temperature near boiling, but preferable about 3
degrees C lower than that boiling temperature. In fact, a
super-insulative pot could need barely a flicker of a flame, and
therefore even a well turned-down stove could cause the water to boil
and evaporate. </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>If the stove only operates at high power there is
more steam made and [at the end of testing] less simmered water
remains....</P></DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>that is true.
but continue.</P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>..... so energy was used to create less
product.</P></DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>Stove simmering is not
creating a product. It is maintaining a
temperature. The steam that is driven off does not represent
loss of "product" which should be understood to be "cooked food" (and
not meaning water that can be added to the pot by any attentive cook in
a household.)</P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>I like Specific Consumption because it forces stove
designers to make stoves that simmer successfully, not just boil water.
</P></DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>I agree. But
the measurement procedures need to accurately document the ability to
have that strong turn-down ratio, without calculations that can yield
ambiguous or mis-leading results.</P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>For example, new TLUDs are better stoves because they
have both high power and low power. In my opinion, the WBT 4.2.3 helped
to create these more successful TLUDs.</P></DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>The cause-and-effect
relationship is not totally clear. We have wanted turn-down
capabilities in TLUDs for many years. </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>As Sam says, we are working on a paper showing
characteristics of the WBT 4.2.3 for the ISO work. Knowing the
characteristics lets folks evolve a perfect test. </P></DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>I question the above
wording to "evolve a perfect test" (which is a test run, not the test
procedures.) Maybe the statement should be that "knowing the
characteristics let's folks operate their stoves in special ways to
obtain superior results that are not realistic for average users."
OR "... let's folks 'game the metrics' to present 'perfected'
test-results BASED ON OPERATIONAL PROCEDURES AND NOT ON IMPROVEMENTS TO
THE STOVES THEMSELVES." <BR><BR>OR it could be that flawed protocols
/procedures (such as dividing by the volume of remaining water after
simmering) can yield numerical results that are questionable and perhaps
disadvantageous to the development of clean cookstoves. </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Sam is doing great work as he crunches all the
data....</P></DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>absolutely.
But we are questioning if the numbers are as valid and useful as
claimed.</P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> and gives ISO real numbers to work with in
their discussions.</P></DIV></DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal><BR>Concluding
statement: The topic of Low Power Specific Consumption is
too important to just brush aside the stated issues. More
"expert testimony" would be useful, including a mathematical analysis of
the impact of the parts of the calculations.
<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR><BR></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Best,</P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Dean</P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On Sat, Feb 14, 2015 at 8:18 AM, Paul Anderson <<A
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target=_blank
moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</A>> wrote:</P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt" class=MsoNormal>Dear Tom
H., and to all who are
interested in proper testing of stoves.<BR><BR>Your reply about your
experiences is helpful. Sounds like you had qualified
testing center do the testing, in accordance with the procedures that
Crispin is questioning. Please send to me the full
details. Could be off-list, but this is sufficiently
important that we will want the full results known.<BR><BR>I have a
specific case of official testing of one of my stoves with unfavorable
results for Low-Heat Efficiency (simmering). I will add that
into the list of examples and provide the details very soon.<BR><BR>I
invite anyone else who has something to report about simmering
efficiency to also send details of their experiences, either favorable
or unfavorable or neutral. <BR><BR>The examination of the
questionable methods about simmer efficiency might take some days, maybe
weeks. But not the months or years that this debate has been
"simmering". <BR><BR>Remember: A testing center that
properly conducts testing using an endorsed but possibly flawed
procedure is NOT a culprit. The culprit is the testing protocols,
<U>IF found to be faulty. </U>And we hope that the testing
center people (employees and leaders) who understand the technical
aspects of the calculations will be among those who can help resolve
these serious issues.<BR><BR>Even those who developed protocols that are
eventually shown to be faulty are not culprits. Mistakes can
be made. However, the culprits can include those who
advocate a protocol that he or she knows (or reasonably suspects) to be
faulty.<BR><BR>Paul </P><PRE>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD </PRE><PRE>Email: <A href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target=_blank moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</A> </PRE><PRE>Skype: paultlud Phone: <A href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" target=_blank moz-do-not-send="true">+1-309-452-7072</A></PRE><PRE>Website: <A href="http://www.drtlud.com" target=_blank moz-do-not-send="true">www.drtlud.com</A></PRE>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> </P></DIV></DIV>
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<P align=left avgcert??="" color="#000000">No virus found in this
message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A href="http://www.avg.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.avg.com</A><BR>Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus
Database: 4284/9121 - Release Date: 02/15/15</P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<FIELDSET class=mimeAttachmentHeader></FIELDSET> <BR><PRE wrap="">_______________________________________________
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<P></P><A></A>
<P align=left avgcert?? color="#000000">No virus found in this
message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A
href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</A><BR>Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus
Database: 4284/9121 - Release Date: 02/15/15</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>