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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Kirk,<br>
<br>
There are two separate issues. One is the temperature of the
water, and the other is the amount of evaporation (steam) caused
by the heat. <br>
<br>
The temperature cannot go above the local boiling point (we say
100 C for our discussion). Physically impossible. <br>
<br>
And the test procedures do not allow the water temperature to be
less than 6 deg C lower than BP. So there is relatively little
temperature variation allowed. <br>
<br>
The steam (evaporation) issues can be discussed separately, with
some stoves evaporating more water than do others. That is a
measurable variable that may or may not need to be in the
calculations. But measured water temperature is held quite
stable.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 2/15/2015 11:23 PM, kgharris wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:CCC7A56E3ED349B48A40EC1D889E08DE@phyllisPC"
type="cite">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="MSHTML 9.00.8112.16609">
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Paul,</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I respectfully disagree. Two
stoves are burning at the same fire power and one has better
heat transfer to the pot. The water in the better heat
transfer stove will be hotter because less heat is lost,
producing more steam and lower scores. The better heat
transfer stove will have to be turned down to a lower power
level to keep the pot the same temperature as the worse heat
transfer stove. That is the whole reason for improving heat
transfer into the pot, to allow a lower power level for the
same cooking ability. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">The thing which has been shown
about the WB simmering test is that it does not work if each
stove has it's own seperate simmering temperature and steam
production. It will work if all stoves are adjusted to a fire
power that produces the same simmering temperature and
steam production for all tests. Then the lower a stoves fire
power and fuel use the better the score, and no punishment for
a more efficient stove. Keeping the simmering temperature and
steam production the same for all stove tests allows
meaningful comparisons between stoves and good protocol for
tier ratings. </font><font face="Arial" size="2">The results
of keeping the temperature the same will help the stove
designer because different designs can then be compared with
each other on equal basis, and the more efficient design,
balanced with cost, can be chosen.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I must agree with Dean Still on
this.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Kirk Harris</font></div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT:
5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color:
black"><b>From:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="psanders@ilstu.edu" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">Paul
Anderson</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February 15,
2015 7:30 PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves]
Examples of results of simmer efficiency Re: [Ethos]
Additional presentations at ETHOS 2015</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Kirk,<br>
<br>
Your comment contains one incorrect statement:
<blockquote type="cite"><font face="Arial" size="2">The stove
which gets more transfer of the heat into the pot may
cause more steam if it cannot turn down to a lower power
level than the lesser stove, but that means that the two
simmering temperatures are different.</font></blockquote>
<font size="2"><font face="Arial">Essentially there is only
one simmering temperature that is allowed, which is to be
never more than 6 deg C </font></font>lower than the
boiling point. If local boiling point is 100 C, then never
less than 94 C, and probably best to keep the temperature of
the water at about 97 C. <br>
<br>
But even a roaring fire cannot raise the temperature above the
boiling point. So the difference in the TEMPERATURE OF THE
WATER is of little consequence, being about 3 deg C. And
remember that <u>the purpose or objective of simmering</u> is
to maintain the temperature. The purpose is NOT to minimize
the amount of evaporated water, which is only a poor
reflection of how much fuel is used. <br>
<br>
Please also see my next message, that is addressed to Phillip
and Dean who have exchanged messages recently.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 2/15/2015 6:41 PM, kgharris wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:2FD178EF9CDE4E7384A9EF4DA4BF8B8F@phyllisPC"
type="cite">
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="MSHTML 9.00.8112.16609">
<style></style>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">All,</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">I am not understanding why
the WBT is invalid if the simmer temperature is held the
same for all stoves. The stove which gets more transfer
of the heat into the pot may cause more steam if it cannot
turn down to a lower power level than the lesser stove,
but that means that the two simmering temperatures are
different. Dean is talking about the test simmering
temperature being the same for all stoves. The stove that
gets more heat transfer into the pot will need more
turn-down than the lesser stove in order to simmer at
the pre-choosen test temperature. That is the whole
reason for improving the heat transfer into the food. To
be able to use lower power levels, less fuel, and fewer
emmissions to cook with. The two capabilities need to
evolve together, and both are improvements which can
enhance a good field usable stove. Also simplicity of
construction and ease of use are important qualities which
need consideration and perhaps some kind of metrics for
measurements.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Kirk Harris</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Santa Rosa, CA. USA</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>----- Original Message ----- </div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid;
PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px;
MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px" dir="ltr">
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4;
font-color: black"><b>From:</b> <a
title="deankstill@gmail.com"
href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">Dean Still</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>To:</b> <a
title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</a> </div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, February
15, 2015 1:35 PM</div>
<div style="FONT: 10pt arial"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves]
Examples of results of simmer efficiency Re: [Ethos]
Additional presentations at ETHOS 2015</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Dear Philip,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The Low Power test works well when the fuel use is
normalized using a set simmering temperature. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Sam and I are writing up some characteristics of the
WBT and I'll post the paper here. Lots of work to do and
I look forward to our continued collaboration.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dean</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Feb 15, 2015 at 11:43 AM,
Philip Lloyd <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:plloyd@mweb.co.za" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">plloyd@mweb.co.za</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN:
0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class="gmail_quote">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Dear Dean</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Crispin said it well:<br>
“</span><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">The
three low power metr</span><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif';
COLOR: #1f497d">ics are invalid. The variables
selected are inappropriately chosen. The
calculated results are misleading and contrary
to any claim [that] they provide guidance for
product development or selection. We have to
move on.” </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">I have
looked at the simmering metrics in WBT 4.3.2
and can only concur. That is why I do not
think we should waste much more time arguing
about them – they are fundamentally wrong.
Yes, stove designers need to be concerned with
simmering and turndown; no, the WBT simmering
metrics do not provide them with guidance, and
can be positively misleading, which is worse.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Kind
regards</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d">Philip
Lloyd</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d;
FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span> </p>
<div style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none;
BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm;
PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm;
BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT:
medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';
FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif';
FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Stoves [mailto:<a
href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dean Still<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 15 February 2015 06:38<br>
<b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Examples of
results of simmer efficiency Re: [Ethos]
Additional presentations at ETHOS 2015</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Prof Loyd,</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As I pointed out, when
the stoves do the same work (hold the water
at 97 C, for example) the stove with greater
heat transfer efficiency scores better.
Simmering tests are important and simmering
is an important part of cooking.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The ISO process is
creating new history and approaches to old
problems. Whatever emerges will certainly be
defensible as the new approaches are forged
by consensus.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dean</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sun, Feb 15, 2015
at 12:58 AM, Philip Lloyd <<a
href="mailto:plloyd@mweb.co.za"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">plloyd@mweb.co.za</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I am
concerned that this is turning
into a very fruitless discussion.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">On
fundamental grounds the simmering
test does not provide anything
meaningful. Crispin has
demonstrated that rigorously, and
others have pointed out that the
test can score an efficient stove
poorly and an inefficient stove
well, so it does not provide any
useful measure. To go on
defending the indefensible does
not make sense, even if it did
accentuate the need for turndown –
but that need was always there, it
was not the product of the WBT.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">We need
defensible measures of stove
performance. Can we please turn
our attention to developing those,
and leave the indefensible to
history?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Prof
Philip Lloyd</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Energy
Institute</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Cape
Peninsula University of Technology</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">PO Box
652, Cape Town 8000</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><a
href="Tel:021" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Tel:021</a>
460 4216</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Fax:021
460 3828</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Arial','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Cell:
083 441 5247</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR:
#1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"></span> </p>
<div>
<div style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT:
0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm;
BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;
BORDER-RIGHT: medium none;
PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Tahoma','sans-serif';
FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</span></b><span
style="FONT-FAMILY:
'Tahoma','sans-serif';
FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Stoves
[mailto:<a
href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Paul
Anderson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 15 February 2015
02:26<br>
<b>To:</b> Discussion of
biomass cooking stoves<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves]
Examples of results of simmer
efficiency Re: [Ethos]
Additional presentations at
ETHOS 2015</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"
class="MsoNormal">Dear Dean, my
reply is below:</p>
<pre>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD </pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> </pre>
<pre>Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+1-309-452-7072</a></pre>
<pre>Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2/14/2015
1:06 PM, Dean Still wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="MARGIN-TOP: 5pt;
MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Paul, </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">To do well
on the Low Power Specific
Consumption metrics the stove
has to have a good Turn Down
Ratio. In other words, the
stove has to have high power
and low power.</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"
class="MsoNormal">I totally agree
with this. But it is not the whole
story of LPSC. Other factors
influence LPSC, especially
concerning the measurement of the
variables that are used to make the
calculation. These can include the
insulation of the pot (incl.
skirts), lid on pot, pot
characteristics such as size,
quantity of water in the pot at the
start, and at the finish.</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Specific
Consumption is based on how much
energy was used to create
simmered water. </p>
</div>
</div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"
class="MsoNormal">Simmered water is
not created. It was already hot at
the start of the simmer phase of
testing. We are interested in how
much energy is used to MAINTAIN the
required temperature near boiling,
but preferable about 3 degrees C
lower than that boiling temperature.
In fact, a super-insulative pot
could need barely a flicker of a
flame, and therefore even a well
turned-down stove could cause the
water to boil and evaporate. </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If the stove
only operates at high power
there is more steam made and [at
the end of testing] less
simmered water remains....</p>
</div>
</div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"
class="MsoNormal">that is true.
but continue.</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">..... so
energy was used to create less
product.</p>
</div>
</div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"
class="MsoNormal">Stove simmering is
not creating a product. It is
maintaining a temperature. The
steam that is driven off does not
represent loss of "product" which
should be understood to be "cooked
food" (and not meaning water that
can be added to the pot by any
attentive cook in a household.)</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I like
Specific Consumption because it
forces stove designers to make
stoves that simmer successfully,
not just boil water. </p>
</div>
</div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"
class="MsoNormal">I agree. But the
measurement procedures need to
accurately document the ability to
have that strong turn-down ratio,
without calculations that can yield
ambiguous or mis-leading results.</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">For example,
new TLUDs are better stoves
because they have both high
power and low power. In my
opinion, the WBT 4.2.3 helped to
create these more successful
TLUDs.</p>
</div>
</div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"
class="MsoNormal">The
cause-and-effect relationship is not
totally clear. We have wanted
turn-down capabilities in TLUDs for
many years. </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As Sam says,
we are working on a paper
showing characteristics of the
WBT 4.2.3 for the ISO work.
Knowing the characteristics lets
folks evolve a perfect test. </p>
</div>
</div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"
class="MsoNormal">I question the
above wording to "evolve a perfect
test" (which is a test run, not the
test procedures.) Maybe the
statement should be that "knowing
the characteristics let's folks
operate their stoves in special ways
to obtain superior results that are
not realistic for average users."
OR "... let's folks 'game the
metrics' to present 'perfected'
test-results BASED ON OPERATIONAL
PROCEDURES AND NOT ON IMPROVEMENTS
TO THE STOVES THEMSELVES." <br>
<br>
OR it could be that flawed protocols
/procedures (such as dividing by the
volume of remaining water after
simmering) can yield numerical
results that are questionable and
perhaps disadvantageous to the
development of clean cookstoves. </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sam is doing
great work as he crunches all
the data....</p>
</div>
</div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"
class="MsoNormal">absolutely. But
we are questioning if the numbers
are as valid and useful as claimed.</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> and gives
ISO real numbers to work with in
their discussions.</p>
</div>
</div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"
class="MsoNormal"><br>
Concluding statement: The topic of
Low Power Specific Consumption is
too important to just brush aside
the stated issues. More "expert
testimony" would be useful,
including a mathematical analysis of
the impact of the parts of the
calculations. <br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dean</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Feb
14, 2015 at 8:18 AM, Paul
Anderson <<a
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>>
wrote:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"
class="MsoNormal">Dear Tom
H., and to all who
are interested in proper
testing of stoves.<br>
<br>
Your reply about your
experiences is helpful.
Sounds like you had
qualified testing center do
the testing, in accordance
with the procedures that
Crispin is questioning.
Please send to me the full
details. Could be
off-list, but this is
sufficiently important that
we will want the full
results known.<br>
<br>
I have a specific case of
official testing of one of
my stoves with unfavorable
results for Low-Heat
Efficiency (simmering). I
will add that into the list
of examples and provide the
details very soon.<br>
<br>
I invite anyone else who has
something to report about
simmering efficiency to also
send details of their
experiences, either
favorable or unfavorable or
neutral. <br>
<br>
The examination of the
questionable methods about
simmer efficiency might take
some days, maybe weeks.
But not the months or years
that this debate has been
"simmering". <br>
<br>
Remember: A testing center
that properly conducts
testing using an endorsed
but possibly flawed
procedure is NOT a culprit.
The culprit is the testing
protocols, <u>IF found to
be faulty. </u>And we
hope that the testing center
people (employees and
leaders) who understand the
technical aspects of the
calculations will be among
those who can help resolve
these serious issues.<br>
<br>
Even those who developed
protocols that are
eventually shown to be
faulty are not culprits.
Mistakes can be made.
However, the culprits can
include those who advocate a
protocol that he or she
knows (or reasonably
suspects) to be faulty.<br>
<br>
Paul </p>
<pre>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD </pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">psanders@ilstu.edu</a> </pre>
<pre>Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">+1-309-452-7072</a></pre>
<pre>Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
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