<p dir="ltr">Dear Paul and all,</p>
<p dir="ltr">I'd like to share a few more things about our biomass boxes:</p>
<p dir="ltr">- we only put boxes on the side of combustion chamber so it only use heat transfer sideway, which cant be used fir cooking anyway. This also help reducing stove out cover temperature a bit.</p>
<p dir="ltr">- if stove burn for 1 hr, it can turn any thing inside the biomass box to good char with our normal box, 5cm thick: ruce husk, saw dust, leaves, small stick (1cm diametter),.... even not so dry naterial. Experimental box of 7-8cm can do fine with dry material but cant handle fresh garden waste. </p>
<p dir="ltr">- we place the gas release holes below sencondary aiy inlet to mix gas- air better. With 4 hole,1cm dia on top, at peak time, the box can give the flame tall enough to touch pot bottom, which is 10-13cm above. Saw dust that hand pressed inside the box can burn for 20-30min</p>
<p dir="ltr">Regards,</p>
<p dir="ltr">Anh</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Feb 12, 2015 11:53 PM, "Paul Anderson" <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>To all, both Stovers and Biochar
makers.<br>
<br>
I thank Marc and Jock and Kirk (and probably some others,
including Peter Hirst with his barrel-size unit, on video) for
their efforts with a retort can inside of a TLUD gasifier. (see
some messages below). I mention the following topics for
consideration.<br>
<br>
1. Where inside the TLUD is the retort can to be placed? The
retort needs heat to it, but the TLUD <u>heat </u>INSIDE THE
FUEL BED is only at the top and then progressing slowly downward
with the MPF (Migratory Pyrolytic Front), meaning that the bottom
of the can does NOT get heated until the MPF is getting close.<br>
<br>
Therefore, should the retort can be above the fuel level but below
the entry of secondary air? Maybe not, because the can and its
contents could chill the rising gases and hinder their
combustion. But maybe this is not so crucial? <br>
<br>
Maybe the retort can is only in the upper half(?) of the TLUD
fuel? <br>
<br>
Or maybe this does not make much difference? <br>
<br>
2. I like Jock's idea of the outlet holes being upward in the
retort can. He reports seeing the small jets of flame. That
means that the retort gases are entering into an environment with
sufficient secondary air for combustion. This also is then an
issue of the placement of the retort.<br>
<br>
Please note that instead of outlet holes there could be an outlet
Channel (pipe, tube, etc) that takes the retort gases to a
different place. Remember that retort gases come out in a
sequence of types that start with water vapor, then mixed gases,
and finally the pyrolytic gases that are combustible. Retort
processes do not occur the same way as TLUD processes.<br>
<br>
3. Placing the retort canister ABOVE the secondary air entry
provides the maximum heat to the retort. Maybe it could be in
the "riser" section, or up where the cooking pot would otherwise
be placed. This has been done in barrel-size units by Doug
Clayton and Hugh McLaughlin and is on video. The main problem
encountered is the difficulty / danger of handling full barrels
well above ground level, sometimes full of hot char.<br>
<br>
4. Of course, issues of char qualities need to be considered.
About putting fines (very small) biomass into retorts, it is known
that the transfer of heat from the edges to the center is HINDERED
if the materials are too packed together.<br>
<br>
Many of us are looking forward to further reports on this topic.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 2/12/2015 6:35 AM, Jock Gill wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Marc,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have also done this. I place feedstock in a smaller can
that only has a few holes in its lid to allow the pyrolytic
gases to escape and burn. I then place this, as you did, in a
larger can used as a ND TLUD and surround the smaller can with
fuel. This creates a retort within a TLUD. The TLUD will burn
some of the charcoal it has made in order to finish the
pyrolysis in the inner retort can. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I find, contrary to the given wisdom, that the inner "retort"
can be placed with in the TLUD with the gas escape holes facing
UP. This allows students to see the gas come out and ignite.
If they can see the flames created by the gas coming out of the
retort it much more powerful educational experience.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Well done,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jock<br>
<br>
<div>Jock Gill</div>
<div>P.O. Box 3</div>
<div>Peacham, VT 05862</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cell: (617) 449-8111</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-weight:bold;text-decoration:underline;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><a href="http://google.com/+JockGill" target="_blank">google.com/+JockGill</a></span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">:>
Extract CO2 from the atmosphere! <:</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
Via iPad</div>
<div><br>
On Feb 12, 2015, at 5:07 AM, Marquitusus <<a href="mailto:marquitusus@hotmail.com" target="_blank">marquitusus@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Hi, in the mids December I consulted the list
about my problems with almond husks as TLUD's fuel.
<div>The problem is the smaller particles of this fuel
obstruct the primary air flow and the pyrolisys stops.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kirk suggested me using the "can method": just
screening the fuel and use the smaller fraction for
filling a can that will be put inside the reactor,
surrounded by the large particles fraction. I recently
tried this method, and it really worked! You can see pics
here: <a href="http://cuinessolars.jimdo.com/cuines/cuines-gasificadores/" style="font-size:12pt" target="_blank">http://cuinessolars.jimdo.com/cuines/cuines-gasificadores/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So, this opens the door for using any size of fuel in a
ND-TLUD, from rice hulls to saw dust or any other little
particles fuel ( I understand that in a FD-TLUD is not
necessary, because of the forced air draft). Also, this
method can allow to shorten the size of the chimneys or
risers, because less draft is necessary.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The bad news are we need a can (that is exposed to high
temps that will deteriorate it) and we need to previously
screen the fuel, but I think these are minor handicaps
compared to the benefits it brings</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Marc</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>Stoves mailing list</span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address</span><br>
<span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web
page</span><br>
<span><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
<span>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information
see our web site:</span><br>
<span><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a></span><br>
<span></span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<fieldset></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
<a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
<a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div>