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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear Anh,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the description. Could you please provide a few
photos? Or some diagrams, with dimensions (approx.)?<br>
<br>
Discussing this is getting me thinking about variations.<br>
<br>
Thanks.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 2/15/2015 6:15 PM, Anh Nguyen wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAPhB0c+01bMugnQi1rM+pPkn9845X0a0J3aRk9anN3eiKvLgmg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">Dear Paul and all,</p>
<p dir="ltr">I'd like to share a few more things about our biomass
boxes:</p>
<p dir="ltr">- we only put boxes on the side of combustion chamber
so it only use heat transfer sideway, which cant be used fir
cooking anyway. This also help reducing stove out cover
temperature a bit.</p>
<p dir="ltr">- if stove burn for 1 hr, it can turn any thing
inside the biomass box to good char with our normal box, 5cm
thick: ruce husk, saw dust, leaves, small stick (1cm
diametter),.... even not so dry naterial. Experimental box of
7-8cm can do fine with dry material but cant handle fresh garden
waste. </p>
<p dir="ltr">- we place the gas release holes below sencondary aiy
inlet to mix gas- air better. With 4 hole,1cm dia on top, at
peak time, the box can give the flame tall enough to touch pot
bottom, which is 10-13cm above. Saw dust that hand pressed
inside the box can burn for 20-30min</p>
<p dir="ltr">Regards,</p>
<p dir="ltr">Anh</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Feb 12, 2015 11:53 PM, "Paul Anderson"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>To all, both Stovers and Biochar makers.<br>
<br>
I thank Marc and Jock and Kirk (and probably some others,
including Peter Hirst with his barrel-size unit, on video)
for their efforts with a retort can inside of a TLUD
gasifier. (see some messages below). I mention the
following topics for consideration.<br>
<br>
1. Where inside the TLUD is the retort can to be
placed? The retort needs heat to it, but the TLUD <u>heat
</u>INSIDE THE FUEL BED is only at the top and then
progressing slowly downward with the MPF (Migratory
Pyrolytic Front), meaning that the bottom of the can does
NOT get heated until the MPF is getting close.<br>
<br>
Therefore, should the retort can be above the fuel level
but below the entry of secondary air? Maybe not, because
the can and its contents could chill the rising gases and
hinder their combustion. But maybe this is not so
crucial? <br>
<br>
Maybe the retort can is only in the upper half(?) of the
TLUD fuel? <br>
<br>
Or maybe this does not make much difference? <br>
<br>
2. I like Jock's idea of the outlet holes being upward in
the retort can. He reports seeing the small jets of
flame. That means that the retort gases are entering
into an environment with sufficient secondary air for
combustion. This also is then an issue of the placement
of the retort.<br>
<br>
Please note that instead of outlet holes there could be an
outlet Channel (pipe, tube, etc) that takes the retort
gases to a different place. Remember that retort gases
come out in a sequence of types that start with water
vapor, then mixed gases, and finally the pyrolytic gases
that are combustible. Retort processes do not occur the
same way as TLUD processes.<br>
<br>
3. Placing the retort canister ABOVE the secondary air
entry provides the maximum heat to the retort. Maybe it
could be in the "riser" section, or up where the cooking
pot would otherwise be placed. This has been done in
barrel-size units by Doug Clayton and Hugh McLaughlin and
is on video. The main problem encountered is the
difficulty / danger of handling full barrels well above
ground level, sometimes full of hot char.<br>
<br>
4. Of course, issues of char qualities need to be
considered. About putting fines (very small) biomass into
retorts, it is known that the transfer of heat from the
edges to the center is HINDERED if the materials are too
packed together.<br>
<br>
Many of us are looking forward to further reports on this
topic.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
On 2/12/2015 6:35 AM, Jock Gill wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Marc,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have also done this. I place feedstock in a
smaller can that only has a few holes in its lid to
allow the pyrolytic gases to escape and burn. I then
place this, as you did, in a larger can used as a ND
TLUD and surround the smaller can with fuel. This
creates a retort within a TLUD. The TLUD will burn some
of the charcoal it has made in order to finish the
pyrolysis in the inner retort can. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I find, contrary to the given wisdom, that the inner
"retort" can be placed with in the TLUD with the gas
escape holes facing UP. This allows students to see the
gas come out and ignite. If they can see the flames
created by the gas coming out of the retort it much more
powerful educational experience.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Well done,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jock<br>
<br>
<div>Jock Gill</div>
<div>P.O. Box 3</div>
<div>Peacham, VT 05862</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cell: (617) 449-8111</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span
style="font-weight:bold;text-decoration:underline;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://google.com/+JockGill" target="_blank">google.com/+JockGill</a></span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">:>
Extract CO2 from the atmosphere! <:</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
Via iPad</div>
<div><br>
On Feb 12, 2015, at 5:07 AM, Marquitusus <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:marquitusus@hotmail.com" target="_blank">marquitusus@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Hi, in the mids December I consulted
the list about my problems with almond husks as
TLUD's fuel.
<div>The problem is the smaller particles of this
fuel obstruct the primary air flow and the
pyrolisys stops.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Kirk suggested me using the "can method": just
screening the fuel and use the smaller fraction
for filling a can that will be put inside the
reactor, surrounded by the large particles
fraction. I recently tried this method, and it
really worked! You can see pics here: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://cuinessolars.jimdo.com/cuines/cuines-gasificadores/"
style="font-size:12pt" target="_blank">http://cuinessolars.jimdo.com/cuines/cuines-gasificadores/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So, this opens the door for using any size of
fuel in a ND-TLUD, from rice hulls to saw dust or
any other little particles fuel ( I understand
that in a FD-TLUD is not necessary, because of the
forced air draft). Also, this method can allow to
shorten the size of the chimneys or risers,
because less draft is necessary.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The bad news are we need a can (that is exposed
to high temps that will deteriorate it) and we
need to previously screen the fuel, but I think
these are minor handicaps compared to the benefits
it brings</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Marc</div>
</div>
</div>
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