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Christina Espinosa wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>I<span style="color:rgb(56,118,29)"> hope so! My favorite
bio-mass stoves are TLUDs!! If anyone would like me to test
some here with women just let me know and we can let you know
what the consumers think. </span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
I would like to assist to make this happen. I do not have any
manufacturing capabilities in Guatemala. We would need to discuss
and collaborate on having some TLUD stoves (in an appropriate
configuration) made in Guatemala. For a few trial TLUD stoves,
the closest person with TLUD production experience is Gustavo Pen~a
in Sonsonate, El Salvador. We would need the help from Christina
to arrange for a supplier.<br>
<br>
For a simple TLUD for pot cooking (not plancha cooking at the
start), I would like to have shown to the people the Troika Bingwa
(mean Champion, or Campeo'n in Spanish), seen at <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a>
But it can be modified for the Guatemala situations. <br>
<br>
Christina, in what environmental settings are you working with
stoves? rural, peri-urban, urban, far-remote; higher
elevations, coastal lowlands?; etc. And arevyour testing
activities for a limited time, or are you permanently working in the
area?<br>
<br>
I hope that this can develop nicely!!!<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 3/3/2015 2:30 PM, Christina Espinosa
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CA+G-rxQy1K7g8esLRcCaAHAfWn+Xg8Ts-+yvQHYnAJG65PZxFQ@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Ron!<br>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 11:18 PM,
Ronal W. Larson <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net"
target="_blank">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>Christina: (cc list)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>I
believe you are the first person to be advocating
LPG on this list. Your vision is receiving support
from some important actors in stove development. I
can easily conceive that you have a system that no
biomass stove can compete with - mostly on the
basis of emissions and human health, but also
probably on saving time while cooking.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>But I
am confused about some messages I hear about LPG. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>a.
I have hear of safety issues with LPG. Any data
on safety?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><span style="color:rgb(153,0,255)"><br>
<span style="color:rgb(56,118,29)">I am not an expert
on safety data, but the data will probably vary
considerably by country. Typically there are two
reasons for bad safety images: 1) lack of
maintenance to LPG cilinders and lack of regulation
to industry, and 2) consumer misuse (consumers
flipping cylinders, etc).<br>
<br>
</span></span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(56,118,29)">We developed an
safety education around using LPG for Guatemala.<br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(56,118,29)"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(56,118,29)">There is a cool
study that they are working on about burns in India
(LPG, kerosene, and wood). I don't think it has been
published yet.</span><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>b.
I know nothing about the cost of LPG stoves or
fuel. Can you tell us the price of your stove (and
the storage can) and the cost of LPG fuel (sold by
weight?) Does Guatemala subsidize LPG prices?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(56,118,29)">Great questions.
Remember every market will have extremely different
prices, regulations, etc. Guatemala is a perfect
market to test something like LPG, since the
infrastructure is already built.<br>
<br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(56,118,29)">We just completed
2,741 surveys in two communities here in Guatemala
here are some of the data to put it into perspective:<br>
<br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(56,118,29)">-76% of families
have interest in switching to LPG<br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(56,118,29)">-73% of families
interested in switching are purchasing wood<br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(56,118,29)">-65% of the
families interested in using LPG, purchase wood in
large quantities ($32.78 per tarea)<br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(56,118,29)">-51% of families
use a "tercio" (26 wood sticks, more or less $2) of
wood to cook daily, 45% use a "manojo" (10 wood
sticks, $1.30) of wood to cook daily<br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(56,118,29)">-Families use an
average of 1.35 of a "tarea" every month to cook
($44.25 a month in wood fuel).<br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(56,118,29)"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(56,118,29)">Families in
Guatemala depending on size use a 25lb tank on average
every month. If they use both wood and LPG typically
purchase LPG every 2 months. A 25lb tank refill
currently costs $12.06 (the most expensive at $18.35)<br>
<br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(56,118,29)">LPG is not
subsidized in Guatemala. <br>
<br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(56,118,29)">We currently offer
6 different stove models. We are not manufactures, but
distribute stoves that our local consumers are wishing
to purchase. Our complete stove packages range from
$75-$300 (stove, tank, regulator, reinforced tubing,
pressure cookers(optional)). We offer credit plans
from 3-36 months with a local bank. We also distribute
LPG, since the market has an inventory of LPG tanks in
bad shape, it helps new consumers in terms of safety
and quality of the tank they receive in the household.
</span><br>
</div>
<div>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>c. Could
you give us some basis for comparing with prices in
Guatemala for wood (sticks, chips, pellets) fuel?
if you have these (and LPG) prices on an MJ or per
standard meal or day basis, that would be helpful.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><span style="color:rgb(106,168,79)">See above.</span><br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>d.
Because of the highly superior emissions
characteristics (I understood how good for the first
time at the ETHOS conference), I could get behind
LPG stoves if that fuel was biomass-based - and even
more so if the fuel came with a co-product char (my
reasons for supporting char-making stove
development). Do you (or anyone) know of anyone
working on a bio-LPG? (and one with a char
co-product?)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Googling
gave me this site: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.biomass-asia-workshop.jp/biomassws/09workshop/jp/full/16fujimoto.pdf"
target="_blank">http://www.biomass-asia-workshop.jp/biomassws/09workshop/jp/full/16fujimoto.pdf</a>,
showing use of a CO-H2 syngas as one approach.</div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>and
also from Japan</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.ieatask33.org/app/webroot/files/file/2012/IEA%20Bioenergy%20Conference/SessionI4-Ogi.pdf"
target="_blank">http://www.ieatask33.org/app/webroot/files/file/2012/IEA%20Bioenergy%20Conference/SessionI4-Ogi.pdf</a></div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>and
this one seems pretty well done;</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.propanecouncil.org/uploadedFiles/Council/Research_and_Development/New_research_programs/Fuel_Parameters_and_Analysis/REP_15866%20Expert%20Analysis%20of%20Biopropane.pdf"
target="_blank">http://www.propanecouncil.org/uploadedFiles/Council/Research_and_Development/New_research_programs/Fuel_Parameters_and_Analysis/REP_15866%20Expert%20Analysis%20of%20Biopropane.pdf</a></div>
<div>and there are more cites - but I think that there
may now be zero bio-LPG.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>None
of these mention char - maybe the Cool Planet
approach to a bio-gasoline can be modified.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><span style="color:rgb(56,118,29)"><br>
I am not familiar with any of these but there is
constantly new technology that is being developed
within the LPG industry. LPG is a fossil fuel, but its
a use it or lose it by-product. The industry is
supportive of transitioning families to LPG but there
are very few initiatives addressing it. The World LP
Gas Association launched a Cooking for Life campaign.
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.cooking-for-life.org/">http://www.cooking-for-life.org/</a>
</span><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>e.
Does LPG fuel in Guatemala come with a well-defined
(controlled, certified) mix of propane and butane?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Thanks
in advance for any more of a sales pitch for LPG
that you can provide. (Your web site <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://gentegas.com/"
target="_blank">http://gentegas.com/</a> is very
well done.)</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="color:rgb(56,118,29)">The industry here
is supposed to have a regulated mix of propane and
butane, but every LPG company varies a bit. Again the
industry has little regulation.</span><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
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<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>f. I
wonder if any TLUD proponent believes we can ever
achieve a TLUD stove as healthy as the LPG variety?
(fans/blowers permitted). Or sufficiently low
emission to allow TLUD/fan stoves to compete on a
health basis with LPG? Same question for rockets.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I<span style="color:rgb(56,118,29)"> hope so! My
favorite bio-mass stoves are TLUDs!! If anyone would
like me to test some here with women just let me know
and we can let you know what the consumers think. </span><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ron</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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