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Have already sent to both and hope they will both respond quickly!</div>
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Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.</div>
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<div><b>From: </b>Paul Anderson</div>
<div><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, May 19, 2015 11:54 AM</div>
<div><b>To: </b>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</div>
<div><b>Reply To: </b>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</div>
<div><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves] Mongolian stove for heating</div>
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<div>Leslie,<br>
<br>
Thank you! I was incorrect. <br>
<br>
Please do pass on to WB and MCC program managers my request for assistance to get easier access to the coal-burning stoves information, especially about the stove designs and about expansion beyond Mongolia of the apparent success there.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/19/2015 10:30 AM, Leslie Cordes wrote:<br>
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Paul - it is incorrect that the Alliance does not cover coal fueled cookstoves. In fact, we have a comprehensive clean cookstoves program in China, and Mongolia has been a long-standing national partner of the Alliance. Additionally, a representative of the
WB funded program spoke about their program at the last Forum in Cambodiaý and we have featured articles about the MCC-UNEP-LBL program in Mongolia in the Alliance's newsletters. I would be happy to pass along your note to the Bank and MCC program managers</div>
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Best regards, Leslie</div>
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<div style="">Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.</div>
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<div><b>From: </b>Paul Anderson</div>
<div><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, May 19, 2015 11:17 AM</div>
<div><b>To: </b>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</div>
<div><b>Reply To: </b>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</div>
<div><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves] Mongolian stove for heating</div>
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<div>Crispin and all,<br>
<br>
Your message is very useful about several important points:<br>
<br>
1. Important heating-stove and air quality work is being done in Mongolia. Congratulations to all who are involved. Seems the World Bank is the big backer.
<br>
<br>
2. Information flow about these efforts is horrible. Our ONLY source of info has been Crispin. THANKS!!!! Otherwise, this is almost off of the radar for Stoves discussions openly on the Internet. I searched for
<blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Ulaanbaatar Clean Air Project (UB-CAP)
<br>
</span></blockquote>
and saw some reports that were more about goals, etc. I did not do a thorough search. Please somebody check fully and confirm or correct me and guide us to the data. But if I am correct, this lack of knowledge is a MAJOR deficiency in our networking.
<br>
<br>
Very interesting that even Crispin (an adviser to the project, but about emissions and evidently not about stove design / manufacturing) does not have clear photos / tech drawings / and other info about the stoves themselves.<br>
<br>
3. The fuel is wet lignite with over 50% volatiles. FANTASTIC!!! TLUD stoves thrive on getting volatiles released from solid fuel, and THEN do the clean burning a few centimeters away!!!!
<br>
<br>
4. The stoves are heavy (high mass which is good for heating-stoves) with cast iron and ceramic (which is great for withstanding the higher temperatures of burning some (maybe much or all) of the final carbon (similar to coking coal once the volatiles are
gone) at relatively high temperatures for the "typical sheet-metal TLUD stoves" for tropical climates.<br>
<br>
5. The GACC and the EPA programs about cookstoves do not (I believe) include COAL-burning stoves. This needs to be corrected. I certainly hope it is resolved well before the November GACC Forum in Ghana. The success in Mongolia should be well documented
and well disseminated.<br>
<br>
Note: Fossil fuels increase the final CO2 in the atmosphere, but that CO2 is "acceptable" in some circles, such as by those who promote LPG, which is extremely clean burning (but is carbon positive). Allowing for that, the issue of CLEAN fuel is about other
emissions (black carbon, methane, Particulate Matter PM, CO etc.). Therefore, there are NO DIRTY FUELS, but only DIRTY STOVES that cannot burn the fuels well. Kerosene (parafin) dripped into a TLUD or Rocket or other stove will give a dirty fire. That
is a user error, not a stove error. Countless examples could be given of inappropriate burning of fuels. But what is important is that any one type of fuel can be cleanly burned in at least ONE design of stove.
<br>
<br>
Related: Even if we could have one of the Mongolian TLUD stoves available for viewing and testing, most certainly the same fuel (high volatile wet lignite) would be needed for any appropriate testing of the stove. Different types of coal would probably
not burn as cleanly in that stove.<br>
<br>
6. We (the collective "we the Stovers") could certainly benefit from further information from Mongolia. I suspect that a Chinese-speaking American engineer-type person could greatly assist with this. I am wondering how much the Mongolian advancement is
already being introduced into northern China. Or is there a "not invented here" barrier to the spread of the progress?<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/19/2015 12:22 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Dear Paul</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Actually I am not aware of the links to the stoves – I just don’t deal with that side the equation. Um…how about looking on line for Ulaanbaatar Clean Air Project
(UB-CAP) and see if they have something on their website. It is likely to be in Mongolian which is written with a Russian script so it will be hard to follow.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Most of the stove that pass are some form of TLUD gasifier. At the moment only two people are making pretty good cross draft stoves. One is a direct reproduction
of the GTZ7 which can be extremely clean. I recall it has negative PM emissions as early as 12 minutes after ignition.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">The fuel is wet lignite. I would not describe it as ‘low quality’ which I found out only means it has volatiles above 20% of dry mass. I would not describe
it as ‘low’ quality but it has >50% volatiles! I think it is the best coal I have ever seen in the world. It is easy to light and can burn extremely cleanly shortly after ignition if the combustion environment is right. Obviously several companies have it
right. If the coal was made into pellets it would be even cleaner burning. They are still burning lump coal ‘as it arrives’. Big pieces are broken up of course.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">The promoted stoves run from I think $80 to $270. Most are cast iron with ceramic interiors. They have to have a two year guarantee.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Regards</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Crispin</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Crispin,<br>
<br>
Please direct us to info including photos about the Mongolian stove for heating. I think you have previously stated that it is burning low-grade coal, right? And it is some variation of a gasifier, correct? And at what cost per stove?<br>
<br>
Paul</p>
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