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Leslie,<br>
<br>
Thank you! I was incorrect. <br>
<br>
Please do pass on to WB and MCC program managers my request for
assistance to get easier access to the coal-burning stoves
information, especially about the stove designs and about expansion
beyond Mongolia of the apparent success there.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/19/2015 10:30 AM, Leslie Cordes
wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:20150519153043.5861524.16543.32993@unfoundation.org"
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Paul - it is incorrect that the Alliance does not cover coal
fueled cookstoves. In fact, we have a comprehensive clean
cookstoves program in China, and Mongolia has been a
long-standing national partner of the Alliance. Additionally, a
representative of the WB funded program spoke about their
program at the last Forum in Cambodia and we have featured
articles about the MCC-UNEP-LBL program in Mongolia in the
Alliance's newsletters. I would be happy to pass along your
note to the Bank and MCC program managers</div>
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Best regards, Leslie</div>
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Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.</div>
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<div><b>From: </b>Paul Anderson</div>
<div><b>Sent: </b>Tuesday, May 19, 2015 11:17 AM</div>
<div><b>To: </b>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves</div>
<div><b>Reply To: </b>Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</div>
<div><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Stoves] Mongolian stove for
heating</div>
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<br>
<div>Crispin and all,<br>
<br>
Your message is very useful about several important points:<br>
<br>
1. Important heating-stove and air quality work is being done
in Mongolia. Congratulations to all who are involved. Seems
the World Bank is the big backer.
<br>
<br>
2. Information flow about these efforts is horrible. Our ONLY
source of info has been Crispin. THANKS!!!! Otherwise, this
is almost off of the radar for Stoves discussions openly on the
Internet. I searched for
<blockquote type="cite"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; color:#1F497D">Ulaanbaatar
Clean Air Project (UB-CAP)
<br>
</span></blockquote>
and saw some reports that were more about goals, etc. I did
not do a thorough search. Please somebody check fully and
confirm or correct me and guide us to the data. But if I am
correct, this lack of knowledge is a MAJOR deficiency in our
networking.
<br>
<br>
Very interesting that even Crispin (an adviser to the project,
but about emissions and evidently not about stove design /
manufacturing) does not have clear photos / tech drawings / and
other info about the stoves themselves.<br>
<br>
3. The fuel is wet lignite with over 50% volatiles.
FANTASTIC!!! TLUD stoves thrive on getting volatiles released
from solid fuel, and THEN do the clean burning a few centimeters
away!!!!
<br>
<br>
4. The stoves are heavy (high mass which is good for
heating-stoves) with cast iron and ceramic (which is great for
withstanding the higher temperatures of burning some (maybe much
or all) of the final carbon (similar to coking coal once the
volatiles are gone) at relatively high temperatures for the
"typical sheet-metal TLUD stoves" for tropical climates.<br>
<br>
5. The GACC and the EPA programs about cookstoves do not (I
believe) include COAL-burning stoves. This needs to be
corrected. I certainly hope it is resolved well before the
November GACC Forum in Ghana. The success in Mongolia should
be well documented and well disseminated.<br>
<br>
Note: Fossil fuels increase the final CO2 in the atmosphere,
but that CO2 is "acceptable" in some circles, such as by those
who promote LPG, which is extremely clean burning (but is carbon
positive). Allowing for that, the issue of CLEAN fuel is about
other emissions (black carbon, methane, Particulate Matter PM,
CO etc.). Therefore, there are NO DIRTY FUELS, but only DIRTY
STOVES that cannot burn the fuels well. Kerosene (parafin)
dripped into a TLUD or Rocket or other stove will give a dirty
fire. That is a user error, not a stove error. Countless
examples could be given of inappropriate burning of fuels. But
what is important is that any one type of fuel can be cleanly
burned in at least ONE design of stove.
<br>
<br>
Related: Even if we could have one of the Mongolian TLUD
stoves available for viewing and testing, most certainly the
same fuel (high volatile wet lignite) would be needed for any
appropriate testing of the stove. Different types of coal
would probably not burn as cleanly in that stove.<br>
<br>
6. We (the collective "we the Stovers") could certainly benefit
from further information from Mongolia. I suspect that a
Chinese-speaking American engineer-type person could greatly
assist with this. I am wondering how much the Mongolian
advancement is already being introduced into northern China.
Or is there a "not invented here" barrier to the spread of the
progress?<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 5/19/2015 12:22 AM, Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D">Dear Paul</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D">Actually I am not aware of the links to
the stoves – I just don’t deal with that side the
equation. Um…how about looking on line for Ulaanbaatar
Clean Air Project (UB-CAP) and see if they have
something on their website. It is likely to be in
Mongolian which is written with a Russian script so it
will be hard to follow.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D">Most of the stove that pass are some form
of TLUD gasifier. At the moment only two people are
making pretty good cross draft stoves. One is a direct
reproduction of the GTZ7 which can be extremely clean. I
recall it has negative PM emissions as early as 12
minutes after ignition.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D">The fuel is wet lignite. I would not
describe it as ‘low quality’ which I found out only
means it has volatiles above 20% of dry mass. I would
not describe it as ‘low’ quality but it has >50%
volatiles! I think it is the best coal I have ever seen
in the world. It is easy to light and can burn extremely
cleanly shortly after ignition if the combustion
environment is right. Obviously several companies have
it right. If the coal was made into pellets it would be
even cleaner burning. They are still burning lump coal
‘as it arrives’. Big pieces are broken up of course.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D">The promoted stoves run from I think $80
to $270. Most are cast iron with ceramic interiors. They
have to have a two year guarantee.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
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color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D">Regards</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D">Crispin</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;
color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Crispin,<br>
<br>
Please direct us to info including photos about the
Mongolian stove for heating. I think you have previously
stated that it is burning low-grade coal, right? And it
is some variation of a gasifier, correct? And at what
cost per stove?<br>
<br>
Paul</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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