<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Dear Dean,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Did the three women interns doing the study of types of fuels and their corresponding combustion qualities come up with a final report? or planning to do so?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I would be very interested in seeing this if it becomes available. I think this very important information as a precursor to developing a series of tests designed to determine if a fuel is suitable for a specific stove or predicting problems when using. All needed for BOX 1 of the six box system. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Thanks</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Frank</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div apple-content-edited="true" class="">
Frank Shields<br class=""><a href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com" class="">franke@cruzio.com</a><br class=""><br class="">
</div>
<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 24, 2015, at 2:35 PM, alex english <<a href="mailto:aenglish444@gmail.com" class="">aenglish444@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Crispin,<div class="">Here;</div><div class=""><a href="http://me.queensu.ca/People/Pollard/" class="">http://me.queensu.ca/People/Pollard/</a><br class=""></div><div class="">Alex</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 5:31 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank" class="">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);line-height:initial" class="">
<div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="">
Dear Alex</div>
<div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="">
Please put me in touch with the Queens Prof. I would like to discuss fuel particle shape. I have a long term plan to make the heating stoves run on them. The long term solution to zero PM stoves. </div>
<div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="">
<br class="">
</div>
<div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="">
Thanks</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888" class="">
<div style="width:100%;font-size:initial;font-family:Calibri,'Slate Pro',sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125);text-align:initial;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class="">
<span style="font-size:initial;text-align:initial;line-height:initial" class="">Crispin
</span></div></font></span><div class=""><div class="h5">
<br class="">
<div class="">
<div dir="ltr" class="">Crispin,
<div class="">A prof I know at Queens U. wants to make torrified sphere pellets that can be pumped with water through pipelines, then separated. </div>
<div class="">A scalable biomass energy concept. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">My comment to Dean related to the only combustion characteristic that would be different with torrified pellets from plane old wood pellets.</div>
<div class="">Flammability limits that I could test in my premix burner TLUD. As Ronald has already stated, differences I too doubt would show up in other diffusion TLUDs. <br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">The fuel matters, the stove matters, the price matters, the meal/task matters, got it. I won't blame or credit the fuel alone, but charcoal really is special :)</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Alex</div>
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class="">On Sun, May 24, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
<span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank" class="">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class="">
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex" class="">
<div lang="EN-CA" class="">
<div class=""><p class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class="">Dear Alex<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class="">The major reason to torrefy wood seems to be that it stops absorbing moisture (mostly) and it weighs less per MJ. The EU is importing a lot of pellets on
this basis. The UK has a power station fired by them.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class="">Regards<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class="">Crispin<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class=""><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></span></p><p class=""><b class=""><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif" class=""> Stoves [mailto:<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank" class="">stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>alex english<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Sunday, May 24, 2015 14:18<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Torrified Pellets<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></p>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p><p class="">Torrified wood has most of it's volatiles. I would expect the gases to have a higher CV and wider range of flame stability when used in a premix burner. Just guessing this has no relevance to cooking stoves.<br class="">
Dean, what is the range, cat pee best to worst PM emissions, that you have measured from any and all tluds when burning dry wood pellets?<br class="">
Alex<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="">On 2015-05-24 1:53 PM, "Dean Still" <<a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">deankstill@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class="">
<div class=""><p class="">Dear Ronald,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="">Thanks for your helpful comments. Charcoal without remaining wood in it doesn't make smoke but, of course, wood really likes to smoke. With biomass the preparation including recipe, drying, pellet size, etc. makes a big difference in
emissions when trying to get down to the very low levels needed to protect health. I'm making some torrified pellets and will report back after testing under the hood.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="">All Best,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="">Dean<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="">On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 3:52 PM, Ronald Hongsermeier <<a href="mailto:rwhongser@web.de" target="_blank" class="">rwhongser@web.de</a>> wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class="">
<div class=""><p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt" class="">Dear Dean,<br class="">
I may seem like I'm harping here, but now that you've said a bit more, you've mentioned a couple of factors that I have noticed in my limited experience without a hood and therefore without concrete parametric analysis, but for which I can give some postulates.<br class="">
<br class="">
1. The wood-gas stove in design mode depends on a uniform fuel "chunk-size" which promotes a level "pyrolysis" front(planar) migrating towards the bottom of the stove. If that plane is broken by dis-uniformity in the fuel or overly large gaps between the fuel
pieces, you will get a spot drop in temperature along with glowing fuel which will migrate unevenly towards the bottom of the stove, breaking the pyrolysis front and sometimes dropping the mean temp inside the burning chamber such that the rising wood gas
will no longer be close enough to critical temp that the onset of 2nd-ary air will ignite it.<br class="">
<br class="">
2. 1. would be consistent with the bark observation. Bark generally has lots more minerals and less energy per unit mass. Did you/they assure dryness level of the bark? Were the pieces between (cross-section/10-20) of the stoves throat? Do you mean pellets
from eucalyptus wood or when eucalyptus oil is poured on the fuel? Off the shelf kerosin burners here in germany are strictly regulated as to what you may or may not burn in them. If it is smoking it is either wrong fuel, design flaw or user error.<br class="">
<br class="">
3. Pellets pack closely, so if they are smoking, usually the problem can be fixed by either turning up the fan a bit or putting some chimney length between the secondary air and the pan to increase the draw. (i.e., the primary air is probably not of sufficient
pressure to deliver enough O2 to the pyrolysis front to keep it hot enough such that it will ignite upon contact with the secondary air.)<br class="">
<br class="">
4. Because torrefied pellets are partially reacted, they may be somewhat less dense and especially because the ends will be cleaner, they may not resist airflow as much, which may help somewhat with 3. above. I would expect them to act very similar to dry pellets,
except for the difference in density.<br class="">
<br class="">
regards,<br class="">
Ronald von Aftermidnighttimeforantibiotics (and bed)<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="">On 23.05.2015 23:49, Dean Still wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class="">
<div class=""><p class="">Dear Ron, <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="">We had three women interns here at the research center for a summer who found cleaner burning recipes for the TLUDs gathered from the surrounding forest. Some things like bark make smoke, etc.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="">Many pellets smoke when using eucalyptus, etc. Different mixtures of kerosene make more or less smoke in off the shelf stoves.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="">I'm wondering if torrified pellets will burn cleaner than normal pellets.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="">Best,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="">Dean<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="">On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Ronald Hongsermeier <<a href="mailto:rwhongser@web.de" target="_blank" class="">rwhongser@web.de</a>> wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class="">
<div class=""><p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt" class="">Hi Dean,<br class="">
I remember that there was a proposed university program (W. Virginia or the Carolinas??) In view of the deaths(not _many_ but tragic) that have taken place due to off-loading of pellets at some European ports (CO in the hold) The torrefaction could lead to
a more inert fuel. That's hopeful speculation on my part however. You would be transporting some less bound water and the energy density is better than regular pellets in addition to the lack of liquid or vapor H2O absorption issue mentioned before-- these
would lend efficiencies in the logistics end of things and an even more uniform fuel than regular pellets, which tend to absorb quite a bit of water here in the damp winter weather...<br class="">
I have to admit that I'm a bit puzzled as to what you mean by cleaner fuel recipes. What specific pollutant are you interested in or are you talking about particulate?<br class="">
If you aren't choking the burn by putting the pot too close, you should be getting a very clean burn with a TLUD?!?<br class="">
<br class="">
regards,<br class="">
Ron<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="">On 23.05.2015 22:01, Dean Still wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class="">
<div class=""><p class="">Hi Ronald, <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="">I'll keep looking. I think that we shouldn't forget cleaner fuel recipes as part of the solution.
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="">Best,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="">Dean<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="">On Sat, May 23, 2015 at 12:33 PM, Ronald Hongsermeier <<a href="mailto:rwhongser@web.de" target="_blank" class="">rwhongser@web.de</a>> wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm" class="">
<div class=""><p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt" class="">Hi Dean,<br class="">
I did some searching around on the internet several years ago on this topic.<br class="">
I'd like to try torrefied stuff as well, but I struck out at that time.<br class="">
No idea where to find them.<br class="">
The main advantage that I picked up on at that time was that they should be relatively inert as to picking up extra water after they were pelletized.<br class="">
Cleaner burning than what?<br class="">
clean burning is a control issue, not a fuel issue as far as I understand. If I understand the concept correctly, it's like using part of the large molecules initially broken out (cracked) by the heat in the reaction vessel to coat the surfaces of the remaining
unpyrolized material. This should burn quite okay in a TLUD.<br class="">
<br class="">
regards,<br class="">
Ronald von Nasennebenhöhlenhölle (but I'm coming back)<br class="">
<br class="">
<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="">On 23.05.2015 20:56, Dean Still wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt" class="">
<div class=""><p class="">Hi All, <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="">I'd like to try torrified pellets in a TLUD under the emissions hood.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="">Any ideas on where to find them?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="">Or if it should be cleaner burning?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="">Best,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="">Dean<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
</div>
</div><p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
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