<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Dear Cecil, Stovers,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think the classes we need are:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">1) size and shape</div><div class="">2) bulk and particle density</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Then on non-wood materials. On vegetative grasses, leaves like or nuts and like products we need:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">3) Lipids (add dry biomass to a beaker and petroleum ether / heat / filter and evaporate the liquid and weigh the residue.</div><div class="">4) Sugars etc: Take above sample / add water / boil / filter and dry liquid fraction and weigh the residue.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">On woody materials omit the lipids and water soluble steps. Likely too low a concentration to bother with.</div><div class="">5) Ash percent</div><div class="">6) moisture percent</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Now we have left the cellulose, hemi-cellulose and the lignin that are not easy tests and I think we can find a method that will work without testing for each.</div><div class="">Perhaps the following:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">TGA to measure E450c volatile fraction (or using a pipe) will be enough calculated lipid free and sugar free and DAF basis. Call it LS-DAF. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Cecil - Your suggestion of collecting biomass fuels at a specific site for testing. I suggest the above tests and determine the range of each parameter we find from the fuels on site. Then the fuels are tested in stoves to come up with working range of each parameter for each of the stoves. Something like that. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regards</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Frank</div><br class=""><div apple-content-edited="true" class="">
Frank Shields<br class=""><a href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com" class="">franke@cruzio.com</a><br class=""><br class="">
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<br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 29, 2015, at 4:41 PM, Cecil Cook <<a href="mailto:cec1863@gmail.com" class="">cec1863@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">Dear all,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Surely there are ways to minimize this particular source of variation.For example, we get a random mixed sample of all the different kind of biomass used in a particular target community- some of everything they burn or even a quantitatively structured sample - of types of biomass and moisture contents and we use that as our test fuel. Also, we need to check how well the Improved Stoves perform in the rainy season when everything gets damp and the moisture content goes much higher.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The veratility of a stove - namely its capacity to burn a large number of different types of biomass fuel typesmay be one of the mot valuable characteristics in a biomass scarce environment or with low income urban dwellers. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">That's my two cents worth,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Cecil sweating in San Marcos Tx and treading water as well </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 6:16 PM, Frank Shields <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com" target="_blank" class="">franke@cruzio.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class="">Dear Paul, Crispin, and Stovers, <div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">“finding good publications on stoves” Many good publications for others but none for us because we don’t yet have biomass fuels classified into relevant classes suitable for us to predict how well a specific stove will respond with a specific fuel. Therefore, until this is done, publications comparing stoves means -nothing- to us. Perhaps there will be information in the articles useful for others. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Crispin writes; "<span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt" class="">compare the</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;background-color:yellow" class="">fuel-stove combinations</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt" class="">. And that has only</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt;background-color:yellow" class="">recently</span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt" class=""> </span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:11pt" class="">been done</span><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" class=""><span style="font-size:15px" class="">”. </span></font></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">It has never been done. We don’t yet know how to do it. Only the three interns started working on finding what the characteristcs biomass have that might be useful to study. Then we need to determine the Working Range we need for the results and the appropriate test procedure needs to be developed to get within that range. We need to develop some ‘spider graph’ or something to illustrate where the fuel falls into and another telling where the ranges the stoves fall into. These are both physical and chemical properties. It is possible and should be keeping us busy for a while. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">regards</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Frank</div><div class="">Intern 1</div><div class="">Intern 2</div><div class="">Intern 3</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div></font></span><div class=""><div class=""><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888" class=""><div class="">
Frank Shields<br class=""><a href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com" target="_blank" class="">franke@cruzio.com</a><br class=""><br class="">
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<br class=""></font></span><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="h5"><div class="">On May 29, 2015, at 2:01 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank" class="">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="h5"><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:18px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" class=""><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">Heh heh, Frank<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">OK, let me extend it:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">"There can be no (useful) comparison between stoves until we compare the<span class=""> </span><span style="background-color:yellow;background-repeat:initial initial" class="">fuel-stove combinations</span>. And that has only<span class=""> </span><span style="background-color:yellow;background-repeat:initial initial" class="">recently</span><span class=""> </span>been done<span class=""> </span><span style="background-color:yellow;background-repeat:initial initial" class="">in a systematic manner</span>. This being that<span class=""> </span><span style="background-color:yellow;background-repeat:initial initial" class="">a culturally relevant</span><span class=""> </span>task is being used and the stove is claimed to be designed for that task<span class=""> </span><span style="background-color:yellow;background-repeat:initial initial" class="">and that fuel and moisture level</span>.<span class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">“Useful” = Our PURPOSE of developing better stoves is to improve Real World situations<span class=""> </span><span style="background-color:yellow;background-repeat:initial initial" class="">hence the critical requirement to include the context of use in all comparative testing</span>. Fuels to study need to have the same characteristic<span style="background-color:yellow;background-repeat:initial initial" class="">s</span><span class=""> </span>as site-specific Real World fuels. Using any other in a comparison is a waste of time.<span class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class="">>Only four people in the World realize this;<span class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><span class=""> </span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><span class="">Well…that might be slightly unfair. Every cook who buys and uses a stove knows this. It would be more reasonable, if we are going to generalise, to say that people who do not use these stoves and who mostly work in offices in the Western World, do not realise this.<span class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><span class="">But generalisations are usually wrong, right?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><span class=""> </span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><span class="">Regards<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><span class="">Crispin<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" class=""><span class=""> </span></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>