<div dir="ltr">Hi Jock,<div><br></div><div>This year I've been coordinating and micro-financing a socio-economically challenged family in the Philippines, to distribute and retail the Belonio TLUD-type domestic cooking stove (<a href="http://danieljohnpeterson.com">danieljohnpeterson.com</a>). It's the family's first attempt at operating their own business & has required extensive support. During my in-kind work there, I demonstrated the cooking stove for about 200+ potential customers, in both urban and rural settings. Anecdotal I can say I had near zero interest from anyone for the benefits of TLUD technologies related to climate-change mitigation. We've achieved several sales, but unfortunately I have no literal documentation of the type you've requested.</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you for the great question.</div><div><br></div><div>Daniel</div><div><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 1 June 2015 at 02:00, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send Stoves mailing list submissions to<br>
<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
<a href="mailto:stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
<a href="mailto:stoves-owner@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves-owner@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of Stoves digest..."<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: examples of biochar stoves in micro enterprise?<br>
(Sujatha Srinivasan)<br>
2. Re: Classifying biomass fuels - topic change (<a href="mailto:ajheggie@gmail.com">ajheggie@gmail.com</a>)<br>
3. Re: VERY interesting article in LOW-TECH MAGAZINE:<br>
Well-Tended Fires Outperform Modern Cooking Stoves<br>
(<a href="mailto:ajheggie@gmail.com">ajheggie@gmail.com</a>)<br>
4. Regenerative Capitalism (Jock Gill)<br>
5. Dean on TV (Bamboo Science Group)<br>
6. Re: Regenerative Capitalism (<a href="mailto:cec1863@gmail.com">cec1863@gmail.com</a>)<br>
7. Re: Regenerative Capitalism (Jock Gill)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 10:33:12 +0530<br>
From: Sujatha Srinivasan <<a href="mailto:sujatha@servals.in">sujatha@servals.in</a>><br>
To: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>><br>
Cc: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] examples of biochar stoves in micro enterprise?<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CA+dZsmEoeVPY-Y5fyh6buVp75r+ctGwyZuACB=<a href="mailto:G92m2VgTiLAA@mail.gmail.com">G92m2VgTiLAA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Thank you Crispin.<br>
<br>
Dear Mr. Gill - Greetings from Servals, India. Good to e-meet you.<br>
<br>
As a quick background - we are a social enterprise based in India with a<br>
mandate around efficient, clean household cookstove based on a social<br>
entrepreneurship based business model. <a href="http://www.servalsgroup.blogspot.com" target="_blank">www.servalsgroup.blogspot.com</a><br>
<br>
I am happy to enclose a link to a cookstove program around our TLUD<br>
gasifier cookstoves - which is currently running in Sunderbans, West Bengal<br>
(Indo-gangetic delta in Eastern India). The largest dissemination of the<br>
gasifier cookstove technology till date, the first to receive a carbon<br>
credit accredit ion, this program has also built in a "charcoal-buyback"<br>
program - where the users of the cookstove are paid for collecting and<br>
selling back the residue (charcoal) from the cookstove back to the project.<br>
This "TLUD charcoal" is then sold as a replacement for fossil fuel.<br>
<br>
We have just compiled a documentation of the socio-economic-environmental<br>
benefits of this cookstove program. Please see this link:<br>
<a href="http://www.slideshare.net/ashiq25/earn-while-you-cook-sunderbans-project-achievements" target="_blank">http://www.slideshare.net/ashiq25/earn-while-you-cook-sunderbans-project-achievements</a><br>
<br>
Happy to share more information.<br>
<br>
Look forward to hearing from you.<br>
<br>
Warm Regards<br>
Sujatha<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 9:16 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<br>
<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Dear Jock<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Contact Sujatha.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Regards<br>
><br>
> Crispin<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> All,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> A friend in the State Department writes:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> "Talking to people about both climate change and cookstoves. Any good,<br>
> well documented, examples of people using biochar stoves inmicro enterprise<br>
> applications?"<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Thanks for your time and consideration.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Jock<br>
><br>
> Jock Gill<br>
><br>
> P. O. Box 3<br>
><br>
> Peacham, VT 05862<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> *<a href="http://google.com/+JockGill*" target="_blank">google.com/+JockGill*</a><br>
> <<a href="https://plus.google.com/_/notifications/emlink?emr=02164940119180120523&emid=CIn6jOiavboCFcgLTAodARYAAA&path=%2F102260924343967128597%2Fop%2Fu&dt=1383089746165&ub=50" target="_blank">https://plus.google.com/_/notifications/emlink?emr=02164940119180120523&emid=CIn6jOiavboCFcgLTAodARYAAA&path=%2F102260924343967128597%2Fop%2Fu&dt=1383089746165&ub=50</a>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Extract CO2 from the atmosphere!<br>
><br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20150531/07c4f044/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20150531/07c4f044/attachment-0001.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 13:36:54 +0100<br>
From: <a href="mailto:ajheggie@gmail.com">ajheggie@gmail.com</a><br>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Classifying biomass fuels - topic change<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:s8vlma5i98ciskn2298lq3p413qr18qtvc@4ax.com">s8vlma5i98ciskn2298lq3p413qr18qtvc@4ax.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br>
<br>
[Default] On Sat, 30 May 2015 10:24:01 -0700,Frank Shields<br>
<<a href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com">franke@cruzio.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
><br>
>Absolutely amazing!<br>
<br>
Yes , the different ways we things does produce widely differing views<br>
of the subject. I liked Cecil's last couple of posts because I share<br>
his view that minutely comparing stoves's technical performance is not<br>
easily translated into the variations between users in actual use.<br>
Also I am no expert in mensuration and feel a lot of the nitpicking is<br>
like a talent contest to have a particular stove selected for grant<br>
funding.<br>
><br>
>I?m trying to control variables and ALL are just skirting around the problem by pilling up variables on top of each so much it makes moving forward impossible.<br>
<br>
Maybe so but your background is in the science of measurement and<br>
analysis, your mind set is to compartmentalise and pigeon hole to<br>
enable that analysis, many of us have to take a broader view because<br>
we do not share your expertise.<br>
<br>
> ?Smokeless fuel? What is that!<br>
<br>
Yes I'm sure I can make most fuels smoke ;-)<br>
><br>
><br>
>and Climate Connection!!??!!<br>
<br>
I agree this is a bit off topic and tenuous and better discussed on<br>
the biochar list, important though it may be, it's best we stick to<br>
stoves and their performance which includes cultural issues.<br>
<br>
<br>
AJH<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 13:54:17 +0100<br>
From: <a href="mailto:ajheggie@gmail.com">ajheggie@gmail.com</a><br>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] VERY interesting article in LOW-TECH MAGAZINE:<br>
Well-Tended Fires Outperform Modern Cooking Stoves<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:us0mmalg1cml8pkp4p0l7guu20ooguqvsu@4ax.com">us0mmalg1cml8pkp4p0l7guu20ooguqvsu@4ax.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
[Default] On Fri, 29 May 2015 14:29:11 -0400,Crispin Pemberton-Pigott<br>
<<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
>It is a good article to challenge yourself on whether the comparisons are made fairly or not. If you compare the energy in the total fuel consumed in one system with the energy in the heat transferred to the pot in another, how do you know if one is better than the other?<br>
<br>
Yes, I would have likes a bit more information about how the costs for<br>
power used to produce and distribute refined fuels were attributed, I<br>
could see no legend for the graphic used.<br>
<br>
I like to use natural gas to cook with (my wife insists on an electric<br>
hob at home and as she does 99% of the household cooking...) but can<br>
see how these additional costs do make it less efficient than a wood<br>
flame cooker.<br>
<br>
AJH<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 09:06:54 -0400<br>
From: Jock Gill <<a href="mailto:jock@jockgill.com">jock@jockgill.com</a>><br>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: [Stoves] Regenerative Capitalism<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:43B5E013-DBCE-4D0F-8675-587B94154852@jockgill.com">43B5E013-DBCE-4D0F-8675-587B94154852@jockgill.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Regenerative Capitalism would create an environment in which Biochar could thrive. It may be a necessary condition for Biochar to thrive.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/Op-Ed/2015/05/31/Save-the-planet-while-lifting-fellow-humans-out-of-poverty-with-regenerative-capitalism/stories/201505310082" target="_blank">http://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/Op-Ed/2015/05/31/Save-the-planet-while-lifting-fellow-humans-out-of-poverty-with-regenerative-capitalism/stories/201505310082</a><br>
<br>
I look forward to your comments and suggestions.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Jock<br>
<br>
Jock Gill<br>
P. O. Box 3<br>
Peacham, VT 05862<br>
<br>
<a href="http://google.com/+JockGill" target="_blank">google.com/+JockGill</a><br>
<br>
Extract CO2 from the atmosphere!<br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20150531/a5f23767/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20150531/a5f23767/attachment-0001.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 09:52:37 -0400<br>
From: Bamboo Science Group <<a href="mailto:greg@bamboosciencegroup.com">greg@bamboosciencegroup.com</a>><br>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: [Stoves] Dean on TV<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:6B39DC47-A95F-47DA-A467-5B3ED558B7EA@bamboosciencegroup.com">6B39DC47-A95F-47DA-A467-5B3ED558B7EA@bamboosciencegroup.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
Congrats Dean on your story appearing on CBS Sunday Morning<br>
G<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPad<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 09:58:16 -0500<br>
From: <a href="mailto:cec1863@gmail.com">cec1863@gmail.com</a><br>
To: Jock Gill <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>>, Discussion of biomass<br>
cooking stoves <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Regenerative Capitalism<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:20150531145816.5275731.49672.9926@gmail.com">20150531145816.5275731.49672.9926@gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20150531/bbff9db0/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20150531/bbff9db0/attachment-0001.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 7<br>
Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 11:24:51 -0400<br>
From: Jock Gill <<a href="mailto:jock@jockgill.com">jock@jockgill.com</a>><br>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
<<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Regenerative Capitalism<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:28637F17-BAD6-4ABD-82CA-45FA26D5AE7F@jockgill.com">28637F17-BAD6-4ABD-82CA-45FA26D5AE7F@jockgill.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Cecil,<br>
<br>
Many thanks for the thoughtful reply with much valuable context.<br>
<br>
Jock Gill<br>
P. O. Box 3<br>
Peacham, VT 05862<br>
<br>
<a href="http://google.com/+JockGill" target="_blank">google.com/+JockGill</a><br>
<br>
Extract CO2 from the atmosphere!<br>
<br>
> On May 31, 2015, at 10:58 AM, <a href="mailto:cec1863@gmail.com">cec1863@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Interesting Oped piece on replacing degenerative capitalism with regenerative capitalism. Who is not in favour of regeneration? But there is still the question of who pays for the damage done by unbridled capitalism's drunken spree which wrecked the US and global economy. Is it not like taking another hit on the bottle to overcome the hangover that resulted from yesterday's excesses? Maybe both capitalism and socialism have in fact failed so what we need is a pre capitalistic economy which returns to a more generous conception of ?what it means to be a responsible human being and good neighbor. Fritz Schumacher wrote eloquently about Buddhist economics which referenced a village economy in Burma (I think it was) and the intelligent way farming families cooperated to ensure no one starves and everybody contributes their labour and capital to ensure the well being of everyone in the community. Every family contributes and everyone benefits. It's an all in kind of communitarian economics,<br>
><br>
> On this point I remember when I Fritz explained to well wisher at a luncheon in his honour in Chicago ?(where I got to know him a little because NCAT was co hosting a speaking tour for him around the USA in 1976) that he could have just as well used Christian Economics as the title but then unfortunately very few people would have taken the time to read it! You will perhap remember that Schumacher got most of his communitarian economics from Gandhi's struggle to revitalize the (then) half million villages in India so each would become politically self governing and economically self reliant.<br>
><br>
> So to make a long response short: there is no need to fix a disintegrated capitalism. We can thank Karl Marx and Max Weber? for their respective critiques of free will capitalism and bureaucratic socialism, clear our heads of ideological abstractions, and focus our minds and hearts on the challenge of creating a sustainable inclusive economy which offers modest property and meaning work for all its able bodied members. If we need a label let's call it communitarian economics. But what's in the name when it's the challenge of full, meaningful, and environmentally appropriate employment that is at the heart of our struggle for a new world order in which humanity can live out its destiny on this little blue green planet we call home. Remember Bucky Fuller's Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth and don't leave home without it!<br>
><br>
> Best we keep on trukin because we ain't nowhere close to home yet.<br>
><br>
> Cecil Cook<br>
> TechnoShare SA<br>
><br>
><br>
> Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.<br>
> From: Jock Gill<br>
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 8:07 AM<br>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
> Reply To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br>
> Subject: [Stoves] Regenerative Capitalism<br>
><br>
> Regenerative Capitalism would create an environment in which Biochar could thrive. It may be a necessary condition for Biochar to thrive.<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/Op-Ed/2015/05/31/Save-the-planet-while-lifting-fellow-humans-out-of-poverty-with-regenerative-capitalism/stories/201505310082" target="_blank">http://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/Op-Ed/2015/05/31/Save-the-planet-while-lifting-fellow-humans-out-of-poverty-with-regenerative-capitalism/stories/201505310082</a><br>
><br>
> I look forward to your comments and suggestions.<br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
><br>
> Jock<br>
><br>
> Jock Gill<br>
> P. O. Box 3<br>
> Peacham, VT 05862<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://google.com/+JockGill" target="_blank">google.com/+JockGill</a><br>
><br>
> Extract CO2 from the atmosphere!<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Stoves mailing list<br>
><br>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
> <a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
><br>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
> <a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
><br>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
> <a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
><br>
-------------- next part --------------<br>
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
URL: <<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20150531/f48b3ba2/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20150531/f48b3ba2/attachment-0001.html</a>><br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Subject: Digest Footer<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Stoves mailing list<br>
<br>
to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br>
<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br>
<a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br>
<a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank">http://www.bioenergylists.org/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
End of Stoves Digest, Vol 57, Issue 32<br>
**************************************<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://DanielJohnPeterson.com" target="_blank"><font size="4"><span style="font-family:garamond,serif"><font color="#0000ff">DanielJohnPeterson.com</font></span></font></a><div><font size="2" color="#0000ff" face="garamond, serif"></font></div><div><span style="font-family:garamond,serif"><b style="color:rgb(255,153,0)"><span style="font-size:8pt"></span></b><span style="color:rgb(255,153,0)"></span><a style="line-height:16px;font-size:small" href="http://www.linkedin.com/pub/daniel-john-peterson/37/a24/69" target="_blank"></a></span></div><div><span style="font-family:garamond,serif"><font size="1"><i><font color="#ff9900"><span style="line-height:16px">Honoring </span><span style="line-height:12pt">land & unceded sovereignty</span></font></i></font></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div></div></div>