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Dear paul</div>
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You have to be imaginative. If you have a device that signals a certain level of PM you can alter the dilution of what is feeding it. If the level is below the detection limit, there is no worry. </div>
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Remember that in general a stove has to meet a certain emission limit, not give an absolute number for someone's chart. If the stove is 'clean enough' then you can develop it for additional functions or control. </div>
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If a stove is 'good enough for government work' then you meet the minimum requirement. In other words it is not a contest, though nothing prevents you holding one. </div>
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The ultimate contest has already been won. One of the stoves in Ulaanbaatar, which can be refuelled forever, produces no PM2.5 that is detectable with a zero-calibrated Dusttrak at a dilution of 3:1. It was not actually that difficult to make. All that is
necessary is to maintain an active bed of glowing coke/char. A Dusttrak can detect 1 microgram (on the screen) although the detection efficiency drops to about 5% at PM0.1. </div>
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There is no need to worry at that limit. There are of course nanoparticles in there. Below the size detection limit but they are reported by number (counts) not mass. There is a new instrument from Grimm that can measure larger nanoparticles as well as the
regular sizes up to PM30. Kinda cool and looking forward to trying one. </div>
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In review, you can have a fixed dilution that is within the detection limits of the instrument or a variable dilution that brings in into that zone. </div>
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Regards </div>
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Crispin</div>
<br>
<div style="background-color:#FFFFFF">Dean or Christina or anyone,<br>
<br>
Are the PM sensors just sounding an alarm (like simple smoke detectors) or are they giving any readouts of actual numbers? Even if not calibrated to exact standards, seeing the numbers can be of great help. There are CO detectors that are alarm only and
some that give readouts.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="x_moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="x_moz-cite-prefix">On 6/11/2015 10:07 AM, Dean Still wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Paul,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We have three PM sensors here at the lab (under $100) from China and are interested in quantifying their performance. The Test Kitchen is set up and we can try some experiments at Stove Camp for those interested.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dean</div>
</div>
<div class="x_gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="x_gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 11, 2015 at 6:47 AM, Paul Anderson <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="x_gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Stovers,<br>
<br>
WONDERFUL!!! Now this Listserv is really working together!! So summary of comments and thoughts thus far:<br>
<br>
1. MOST of us were almost unaware of the existence of Speck, and we find out (thanks Christina) that there are many such types of units.<br>
<br>
2. But being inexpensive, they have issues of quality of the data. Evidently not of sufficient quality for the HEALTH STUDIES requirements of Kirk Smith and his crew.<br>
<br>
3. But for those of us in the "trenches" trying to understand how to improve the stoves, these small detectors of PM could be of great assistance. If only to be able to detect whether the emissions are improving or worsening would be useful for a stove designer
to make comparisons between one stove with two different variations.<br>
<br>
4. These smaller PM measurement devices have not yet entered into the activities of Aprovecho (as developer of high precision instruments) and therefore have not been part of Aprovecho activities for Stove Camps where the inexpensive instruments might be of
great interest. <br>
<br>
5. Will these PM sensors be part of Stove Camps? Or when? I do not have any such sensors, and I am not intending to attend the Aprovecho Stove Camp in July (27 to 31, I believe). Dean and crew or some attendee might arrange to have the PM sensors by
then.<br>
<br>
But there is another Stove Camp early next month (9 - 10 July) in Ontario, Canada, headed by Crispin PP and Julien Winter and hosting assistance by Alex English. The focus will be on the RELATIVELY LOW COST emissions testing equipment (and procedures) that
Crispin knows so well. If you are not familiar with such equipment or want further information and hands-on experience, consider attending. Information about this Stove Camp about Testing is available from Julien, who I ask to re-post to the Stoves Listserv
the contact information and details / agenda (with a new Subject line). So, perhaps further discussion about the inexpensive PM measurement devices will be included at that event.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a>
Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div>On 6/10/2015 6:09 PM, Christina Espinosa wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">I asked Kirk Smith if he had used this one before and here is his response regarding these type of PM devices for the home from tests they have run:<br>
<br>
<span style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">"There a number of PM devices on the market now designed for general consumers -- at least a dozen in China alone. plus some here. We have evaluated several and are doing another batch here soon at our lab in Richmond. So
far, none has the combination we want of <br>
<br>
-- precise and stable enough readings<br>
--small and light enough for personal monitoring<br>
--ease in zeroing and calibrating<br>
--high enough upper limit -- they typically stop at 1 mg/me or lower<br>
--ease in cleaning -- necessary for our environments or even in dirty Asian cities<br>
--reasonable battery life<br>
--easy datalogging, downloading, etc<br>
<br>
Our UCB-PATs+ does meet these criteria and is now undergoing field trials. (We are also flying it on our aerial particle monitor (drone) in India.) Would not expect it to be commercially available (from BA) until early next year, however."</span><br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="x_gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="x_gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 10, 2015 at 4:22 PM, Roberto Poehlmann <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:roberto.poehlmann@gmail.com" target="_blank">roberto.poehlmann@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="x_gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc
solid; padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Paul,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>i found this links about specksensor, with experiments results:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href="http://publiclab.org/notes/chrisbartley/04-15-2014/speck-particle-monitor" target="_blank">http://publiclab.org/notes/chrisbartley/04-15-2014/speck-particle-monitor</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is another monitor of PM:<br>
</div>
<div><a href="http://www.dylosproducts.com/ornodcairqum.html" target="_blank">http://www.dylosproducts.com/ornodcairqum.html</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>..and another:</div>
<div><a href="http://aircasting.org/" target="_blank">http://aircasting.org/</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Arduino:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In the world of Arduino, you can DIY your own PM device, like this (Dustduino):</div>
<div><a href="http://publiclab.org/notes/Schroyer/11-23-2013/measure-coarse-and-fine-air-particulates-with-a-dustduino" target="_blank">http://publiclab.org/notes/Schroyer/11-23-2013/measure-coarse-and-fine-air-particulates-with-a-dustduino</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It uses the sensor Shinyei PPD-42 Dust Sensor (<a href="http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/grove-dust-sensor-p-1050.html" target="_blank">http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/grove-dust-sensor-p-1050.html</a>)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is a experiment to compare this Japan sensor with a similar Korean Sensor,
<a href="http://aqicn.org/sensor/shinyei/" target="_blank">http://aqicn.org/sensor/shinyei/</a></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It says that "There are many affordable and low-cost air particule sensor. The most famous one is definitely the Japanese Shinyei sensor, with a cost of around 75 CNY (12 USD)"</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is another DIY monitor with arduino:<br>
</div>
<div><a href="http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-one-PM25-monitor-with-Arduino-UNO/" target="_blank">http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-one-PM25-monitor-with-Arduino-UNO/</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It uses the sensor SDS011 (link <a href="http://inovafitness.com/product-35.html" target="_blank">
http://inovafitness.com/product-35.html</a>).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Finally, i found this document, that describe various sensors and describe how it works.</div>
<div><a href="http://www.teco.edu/%7Ebudde/publications/inss2012_budde.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.teco.edu/~budde/publications/inss2012_budde.pdf</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I have now two Arduinos, and i will make (some day) my own datalogger (temp, PM, CO, oxygen, etc.). The sensors for Arduino's are not to expensive, and in Internet exists a lot of examples of this type of devices.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>This is, for example, a dalalogger made with Arduino:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href="http://www.instructables.com/id/Arduino-Temp-Logger/" target="_blank">http://www.instructables.com/id/Arduino-Temp-Logger/</a><br>
</div>
<div><a href="https://blog.adafruit.com/2010/09/07/a-thermocouple-datalogger-based-on-the-arduino-platform/" target="_blank">https://blog.adafruit.com/2010/09/07/a-thermocouple-datalogger-based-on-the-arduino-platform/</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Cheers<span><font color="#888888"><br>
Roberto</font></span></div>
</div>
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University of the Pacific '10<br>
School of International Studies<br>
<a href="mailto:c_espinosa1@u.pacific.edu" target="_blank">c_espinosa1@u.pacific.edu</a><br>
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