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Dear Anil</div>
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A particle that is not a 'clump' of something solid can't cross the blood brain barrier they way a nanoparticle of silica can, for example. The reason is simple : it is no longer a particle after context. </div>
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Black carbon nanoparticles are small enough to get into blood cells and cross the barrier and wander around the brain. That's true. No one knows the effect. They have always been in the environment from fires, especially grass and forest fires. </div>
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The blue haze in the Blue Ridge Mountains is caused by liquid particles. There is a lot f stuff floating around. </div>
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Regards </div>
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Crispin </div>
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Hi stovers. This topic of inhaling fine particles is much more complex than simply affecting the lungs. It also affects the brain directly. </div>
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I did some research on how they lodge in brain by breaking the blood brain barrier. Last year I wrote an article on this in Times of India. . Though it was written from the point of view of Pranayam (breathing exercise) but the references in the article should
throw light on the issue of inhalation of the small particles.</div>
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<a href="http://www.nariphaltan.org/pranayam.pdf">www.nariphaltan.org/pranayam.pdf</a></div>
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Cheers.</div>
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Anil</div>
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<div class="x_gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 12:34 AM, Frank Shields <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com" target="_blank">franke@cruzio.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt">Dear Andrew and Crispin, Stovers,</span></p>
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<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt">All you say does complicate things. We have:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt"> </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:16.0pt">1)<span style="font-size:7pt; font-family:'Times New Roman'">
</span></span><span style="font-size:16.0pt">toxic volatiles; gases that to measure requires scrubbers of different types and GC-MS type equipment. So that is out of our range of tests but I think we work around that much like the drinking water industry.
They test for only fecal coliform(FC) and use it as an indicator. That is if FC is low they consider all the toxic microbes also low. So if we show the air clean of particles we can consider the combustion process is also destroying the organic gases(?).</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:16pt">2)<span style="font-size:7pt; font-family:'Times New Roman'">
</span></span><span style="font-size:16pt">Droplets; These are water and/or condensed tars. They hit a surface and water evaporates and the organic fraction is left as a coating to soon be incorporated into tissue or blood stream. </span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:16pt">3)<span style="font-size:7pt; font-family:'Times New Roman'">
</span></span><span style="font-size:16pt">Inorganic ash; very fine mineral material that may, or not, dissolve in water. Likely harmless chemically but can block airflow.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size:16pt">4)<span style="font-size:7pt; font-family:'Times New Roman'">
</span></span><span style="font-size:16pt">Soot; organic carbon that can block airflow and migrate into lungs.</span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt">It seems testing volatile toxins are out. It seems determining size of particles meaningless if there are droplets or fog. The problems are both blocking airflow in the lungs and organic materials. If
agreed we need to test the filter blockage (like the modified SDI test I mentioned) and weighing the filtered material and determined percent organic material to percent inorganic ash. (if using cellulose filter we heat to 550c and measure inorganic ash left
and if using glass fiber filters we heat to 550c and determine weight loss as organic).
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt">So we have a (1) SDI type measurement and (2) percent organic and (3) inorganic trapped on the filter as Test Results. If the SDI type measurement Passes (agreed upon air volume does not reduce air flow
as agreed upon value) the other two values are not necessary. Something like that?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="x_MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt">Thanks</span></p>
<div>Frank</div>
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Frank Shields<br>
<div><a href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com" target="_blank">franke@cruzio.com</a><br>
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<div>On Jun 20, 2015, at 10:35 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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Dear Andrew and Frank</div>
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Please consider that many of the 'particles' are not solid. Because the N American standards concentrated of 'dry dust' measurements taken above 400 degrees, there is a natural tendency to think of particles as little bits of carbon or sand. </div>
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Condensed particles are like droplets of fog that appear below 400 which is why 400 was chosen to eliminate them!</div>
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When they get to the lung surface they stick like fog condensation on a metal plate. They are no longer particles but chemical deposits. They don't retain their integrity and wander around like bits of sand. They blend in. </div>
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Most of the PM from a coal of wood fire is condensed particles not dry dust. Exposure to PM and disease estimates and 'what might be' are not obvious because there really are three things in that mix: condensed droplets of liquids/chemicals, black carbonaceous
particles and other organic particles. BC and OC. </div>
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Obviously it is simplistic to group everything together. The particles emitted at the end of a burn will probably be very different from those emitted at the beginning. The dose-responses will be different too.
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Lots of work still needed. </div>
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Regards </div>
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Crispin </div>
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<div>[Default] On Fri, 19 Jun 2015 11:55:13 -0700,Frank Shields<br>
<<a href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com" target="_blank">franke@cruzio.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
>Thinking the smoke effects the lungs by plastering and clogging the lungs with surface particles. Could be effected more by tars and flat shaped than weight or size - but likely a combination of all.
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Frank I'm by no means genned up on this subject but I think it's the<br>
fact that the sooty particles are so small that they can migrate<br>
through the mucous membrane walls. Once in the cells their mutagenic<br>
properties can affect cell division.<br>
<br>
AJH<br>
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