<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;">Ranyee, cc list<div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Thanks for the forwarding.</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I’m willing to be involved in the upcoming review of the standards. I agree that it is important work. However, it’s not clear from the link below how I could qualify. If anyone reading this can invite me in, I’d be happy. One qualification is being the first coordinator of this list. Another is having been in some past ISO standard use.</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>The nearest I can come now would be to possibly represent IBI - which is an International NGO with some interest in this topic - but that would take some time. I don’t think this stove list will qualify to comment - not an official NGO.</div><div><br></div><div>Ron</div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Jul 19, 2015, at 5:13 PM, Ranyee Chiang <<a href="mailto:rchiang@cleancookstoves.org">rchiang@cleancookstoves.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Dear Ron and all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I have forwarded your suggestion about testing to the Project Leader and Convenor of the ISO Technical Committee 285 Working Group that is working on improving laboratory testing. This working group is making improvements to and expanding existing lab protocols to address multiple stove/fuel combinations, cooking practices, emissions, efficiency, safety, and durability. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The development of testing protocols is being done by many partners through a consensus-based process. If anyone has recommendations and ideas for the protocols being developed, the best way to influence things is to participate directly. For more information about how the ISO process, please see<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://cleancookstoves.org/technology-and-fuels/standards/how-to-participate.html" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://cleancookstoves.org/technology-and-fuels/standards/how-to-participate.html</a>. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Ranyee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br>Begin forwarded message:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>"Ronal W. Larson" <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>><br><b>Date:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>July 19, 2015 at 6:25:53 PM EDT<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Discussion of biomass <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>>, Dean Still <<a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">deankstill@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:camilla.fulland@primestoves.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">camilla.fulland@primestoves.com</a>>, Muhammad Nurhuda <<a href="mailto:mnurhuda@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">mnurhuda@gmail.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Re: [Stoves] Story about a successful TLUD in Indonesia</b><br><b>Reply-To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Dean and List cc Prof. Nurhuda and Ms. Fulland<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Agreed. Turn Down Ratio (TDR) is critical. We should be able to get 3:1 with TLUDs - and maybe more (Kirk Harris has sometimes done better). I should have asked Prof. Nurhuda and Ms. Fulland to comment on TDR and power levels as well as my other questions. The story says they developed a larger TLUD model because of customer feedback. The video of operation shows a sliding door that certainly can have a maximum/minimum aperture ratio much greater than 3.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Your comment on avoiding constant tending is very important. Present testing is not mirroring what happens in the field. I hope that we can hear of new EPA/GACC stove testing protocols that include both limiting tending time and recording it.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>I should have also noted that a standard fuel for this stove is short hunks of relatively thin branches. Takes some more effort but can go quick with a machete or axe/hatchet. That’s a lot faster/easier than splitting large logs and not much more work than cutting to a uniform length. I’ve forgotten the optimum angle for cutting but I think is a little more acute than 45 degrees. Stacking vertically leaves too large an air space (not enough flow resistance). I hope we can hear more about the satisfaction in the Philippines also with this fuel.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="apple-tab-span"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Best of luck in your upcoming stove camp. Aprovecho is providing a very valuable service. Please give us some daily feedback on what is happening soon in Cottage Grove.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Ron<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">On Jul 19, 2015, at 2:16 PM, Dean Still <<a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">deankstill@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Hi Ron,<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">We have also gotten positive feedback about using TLUDs. In my opinion, folks seem to like the batch fed stoves, like coal, charcoal, liquid, and gas that don't need constant tending. They may not like a TLUD if it burns the rice, etc. with inadequate turn down. Propane stoves, and other stoves, can have too low high power for making good tortillas.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Best,<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Dean<o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">On Sun, Jul 19, 2015 at 7:38 AM, Ronal W. Larson <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;"><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">List: cc Prof. Nurhuda and Camilla Fulland<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">1. This is to encourage all stovers to read the nice story about the Indonesian firm “Kopernik”, with much about Prof. Nurhuda and his TLUD stove, and the firm “Prime Stoves”. I get the (free) print copy of “Boiling Point” (BP), but think you can get there through:<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><a href="http://www.hedon.info/BP:Latest%20Issue" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://www.hedon.info/BP:Latest%20Issue</a><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Then you have to download - but maybe first sign up.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">2. One quote (emphasis added about being the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b><u>most popular</u></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>stove - the first time I have seen this for a TLUD):<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><i>"In their search for an appropriate cookstove, Wojkowska and Nakamura were introduced to Professor Muhammad Nurhuda, a lecturer in theoretical physics at Brawijaya University in Malang, East Java. Professor Nurhuda had been working on the development of a top-lit uplift gasifier stove, named the UB.03-01 stove. This stove used up to 80% less wood than a three-stone cookfire and produced no smoke when burning dry fuel. Made from sheet metal, the stove was lightweight and easy to transport - a valuable feature in order to expand distribution to remote islands. The factory price of the stove, less than US$ 13, was far lower than imported cookstoves (in the range of US$ 30-50) and there was no risk of shipments being delayed in customs. This confluence of innovative design, fuel-efficiency, portability and affordability made the stove extremely attractive from a technical and economical viewpoint.</i><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><i>The UB.03-1 stove was regularly selected as the most popular clean cookstove at these events. In Bojonegoro, East Java, it was voted the most popular product of all technologies including solar lights, water filters and agricultural technologies. </i></b><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><i>A further key supply chain development came in late 2013 when Norwegian investment group Differ became the majority investor and distributor of Professor Nurhuda’s UB.03-1 cookstove.”</i><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">3. Most of the story was about the distribution system set up by Kopernik, which company can be found at: <a href="http://www.kopernik.ngo/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://www.kopernik.ngo/</a><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">4. There is a good bit about a firm called Prime stoves (<a href="http://www.primestoves.com/team/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://www.primestoves.com/team/</a>), headed by Ms Fulland<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">5. Dr. Nurhuda and Ms. Fulland: <o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Can you add anything on why the stove purchasers liked your TLUD stove better than others? (time saving? using the char?, smoke reduction?, able to use small branches?, making money?, saving money?, etc?<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">I would have liked to included an address for the founders of Kopernik (<i>Wojkowska and Nakamura) </i>, so hope you will see if they also wish to comment.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Congratulations to all involved, especially the Hedon publishers of BP, who I presume read this list some.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Ron<o:p></o:p></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br><br clear="all"><o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">--<o:p></o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Dean Still<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Executive Director<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Aprovecho Research Center<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">PO Box 1175<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">76132 Blue Mountain School Road<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Cottage Grove, OR 97424<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">(541) 767-0287<o:p></o:p></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><o:p> </o:p></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>