<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div>Rebecca and ccs:</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1. Thanks very much for sending the note on today’s IBI webinar. I forgot about it, but just listened and was (like you) much impressed. </div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2. I will post this on the biochar and biochar-stove lists, but there are a few messages for TLUD stove developers/users in Hans-Peter Schmidt’s talk:</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>a. He made a strong pitch for quenching the produced char. Preferably in urine. Hot quenching may be better.</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>b. He was Ok with mild steel. Rust is OK - the iron improves the char.</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>c. His first plant (pumpkins, chills, and many others tested so far) productivity improvement results were around 20% - but their further efforts got up to 300% and more. This seems to be plenty good enough to have local rural families accepting his approach nicely. Present efforts now in Nepal; 20+ villages .</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>d. I don’t see a way to use his “cone” approach for most cooking tasks, but there was one example appropriate for broiling.</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>e. His chart of pollutants (CO etc) looked better than usual char-making retorts. I hope someone can compare his data with TLUDs; my guess is about the same.</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>f. His approach is more amenable to wet/moist fuels than for TLUDs. He has plenty of excess heat. Might be a way to do some pre-heating of his input fuel.</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>g. He showed two types of air flows: central flame or outer toroidal flames. No obvious preference for one or the other. The air cannot be split into </div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>h. Their last produced char (on top) has been in for maybe 20 minutes vs several hours for the first produced (bottom). TLUDs are similar but the shortest time TLUD char is at the bottom, not the top.</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>i. Many pointers on the use of the char and handling of the char - trying here to limit comments to the production differences/lessons - not the farm results.,</div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>j. He is getting much more char per unit time than with TLUDs, and apparently well justified for farmers, but I guess he would recommend TLUD also - because of the (now very high) ag value of the char. I didn’t hear a comparison to producing char this way for later combustion - but I believe he would say the char is much more valuable for placement in the field. </div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span></div><div>3. Listening to the webinar is cheap - if you consider all the benefits of IBI membership - which costs and benefits are:</div><div><div id="pagecontent" style="width: 1000px; padding: 0px; margin: 0px; border: 0px; float: left; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; line-height: 19.2000007629395px; widows: 1; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); position: static; z-index: auto;"><div id="content"><div id="node-2731" class="node clear-block"><div class="content"><p style="margin: 15px 0px;">IBI Annual Membership Dues. Prices in US dollars.</p><ul><li><a href="https://ibi.memberclicks.net/index.php?option=com_mc&view=mc&mcid=form_102952" style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><strong>Sustaining membership</strong></a> - $1000 (for organizations, businesses, or individuals)</li><li><a href="https://ibi.memberclicks.net/index.php?option=com_mc&view=mc&mcid=form_102951" style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><strong>Business membership</strong></a> - $500 (for commercial entities)</li><li><strong><a href="https://ibi.memberclicks.net/index.php?option=com_mc&view=mc&mcid=form_113176" style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Organization membership</a></strong> - $350 (for non-profit, institutional, and other non-commercial organizations)</li><li><a href="https://ibi.memberclicks.net/index.php?option=com_mc&view=mc&mcid=form_102950" style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><strong>Professional membership</strong></a> - $75 (for individuals)</li><li><a href="https://ibi.memberclicks.net/index.php?option=com_mc&view=mc&mcid=form_105581" style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><strong>Low/middle income countries Professional membership</strong></a> - $40 (for individuals)<br>(members of lower/middle income countries can join at a discounted rate: <a href="http://www.biochar-international.org/list_of_low_middle_income_countries" style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">click here for eligible countries</a>)</li><li><a href="https://ibi.memberclicks.net/index.php?option=com_mc&view=mc&mcid=form_102949" style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><strong>Student membership</strong></a> - $40 (for individuals in an educational program)</li><li>If you are not ready to join, but would like <strong>to sign up for IBI's email update list</strong>, <strong><a href="https://ibi.memberclicks.net/index.php?option=com_mc&view=mc&mcid=form_102947" style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">click here</a></strong>.</li><li>IBI is a non-profit organization registered in the United States. <a href="https://ibi.memberclicks.net/index.php?option=com_mc&view=mc&mcid=form_105579" style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);"><strong>If you wish to make a donation to support our work, please click here</strong></a>.</li></ul><p style="margin: 15px 0px;"><img alt="benefits" src="http://www.biochar-international.org/sites/default/files/member_benefits_graphic_2015.png" style="border: 2px solid; float: left; width: 953px; height: 599px; margin-left: 2px; margin-right: 2px;"></p><ul><li> </li></ul><div style="margin: 15px 0px;"> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin: 15px 0px;"> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin: 15px 0px;"> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin: 15px 0px;"> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin: 15px 0px;"> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin: 15px 0px;"> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin: 15px 0px;"> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin: 15px 0px;"> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin: 15px 0px;"> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin: 15px 0px;"> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin: 15px 0px;"> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin: 15px 0px;"> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin: 15px 0px;"> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin: 15px 0px;"> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin: 15px 0px;"> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div></div><p class="footer-text" style="font-size: 9.60000038146973px; margin: 15px 0px;">© 2015 International Biochar Initiative | <a href="http://www.biochar-international.org/privacy-policy" style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Privacy Policy</a> | <a href="http://www.biochar-international.org/terms-of-use" style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">Terms of Use</a></p><div><br></div></div></div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><br><div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>A bit more (with the same sales pitch for joining IBI) at the biochar sites. This is the best sales pitch I have seen for biochar and TLUDs (and for not consuming charcoal during cooking). </div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>If you have guilt (like I do) for my own CO2 output - this membership should be worth quite a few of your annual tonnes of CO2 release. IBI (through Shiva and a very few others) is doing work no-one else is. This Webinar is just one example.</div><div><br></div><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Anybody see anything wrong with what Hans-Peter has given today?</div><div><br></div><div>Ron</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>On Aug 20, 2015, at 12:39 PM, Rebecca A. Vermeer <<a href="mailto:ravermeer@telus.net">ravermeer@telus.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="font-family: 'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; line-height: 115%; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; line-height: 14px;">Dear Crispin,</span></div><div><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; line-height: 115%; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; line-height: 14px;">Your opening lines on the applications of biomass burning is like icing on my cake. I am really excited with what you have seen. Did you or can you see potential biochar production and applications? Half an hour ago I came out of an IBI webinar featuring Hans-Peter Schmidt - it was fantastic!! the best IBI webinar I have attended so far. Here's the digest from Shiva Scotti:</span></div><div><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; line-height: 115%; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; line-height: 14px;"></span> </div><div><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; line-height: 115%; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; line-height: 14px;">There are only a few days left<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://ibi.memberclicks.net/message2/link/ae03ffea-1372-48c1-ac86-7670412253bc/1" target="_blank" data-mce-href="http://ibi.memberclicks.net/message2/link/ae03ffea-1372-48c1-ac86-7670412253bc/1" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span>to sign up</span></a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>and participate in the IBI Webinar Series event<strong><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi;" style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>featuring Hans-Peter Schmidt of the Ithaka Institute!</span></strong></span></div><div><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; line-height: 115%; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; line-height: 14px;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; line-height: 115%; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; line-height: 14px;"></span></span><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><strong><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; mso-bidi-font-family: Helvetica;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Topic:</span></strong><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; color: black;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Farm scale biochar production, nutrient enhancement and soil application techniques</span><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt;" style="font-size: 10pt;"></span></div><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; line-height: 115%; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; line-height: 14px;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; line-height: 115%; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; line-height: 14px;"></span></span><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><strong><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; mso-bidi-font-family: Helvetica;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Description:</span></strong><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Mr. Schmidt will discuss how biochar prices from industrial production are at levels that may make its use in most agricultural settings economically non-viable. This scenario can change when farmers produce—on farm—their own biochar from residues such as straw, husks, shrubs, cuttings, and prunings in smaller scale, low-cost biochar kilns. He will detail how farmers can combine biochar production with on-farm waste management, biomass heat generation, and on-site organic fertilizer production. Using Kon-Tiki type flame curtain pyrolysis systems, the cost per tonne of biochar could decrease significantly from the current market price.</span><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt;" style="font-size: 10pt;"></span></div><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; line-height: 115%; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; line-height: 14px;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; line-height: 115%; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; line-height: 14px;"></span></span><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">The webinar will present the Kon-Tiki farm-scale biochar production system, show how to make organic biochar based fertilizer, how to apply nutrient enhanced biochar most efficiently, and present highly encouraging results of various field trials. </span><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt;" style="font-size: 10pt;"></span></div><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; line-height: 115%; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; line-height: 14px;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; line-height: 115%; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; line-height: 14px;"></span></span><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Mr. Schmidt founded the Ithaka Institute for carbon strategies in Valais (Switzerland) developing concepts for the remediation of agro-ecosystems and carbon sequestration through agronomic methods. He is behind the concept of biochar cascading applications in animal farming. He guided the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="aqj">development of the European Biochar Certifi</span>cate (EBC)<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="aqj">and in 20</span>14, he developed (with Paul Taylor) the Kon-Tiki flame curtain kilns that spread as open source technology to 25 countries in less than a year.</span><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt;" style="font-size: 10pt;"></span></div><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; line-height: 115%; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; line-height: 14px;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif'; line-height: 115%; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-theme-font: minor-bidi; mso-ansi-language: EN-CA; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; line-height: 14px;"></span></span><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">For more information on this webinar program, including links to past presentations, please see:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.biochar-international.org/webinar_series" target="_blank" data-mce-href="http://www.biochar-international.org/webinar_series" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"><span>http://www.biochar-international.org/webinar_series</span></a>.</span><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt;" style="font-size: 10pt;"></span></div><p data-mce-style="margin: 0px;" style="margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"></span> </p><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Regarding the photos and drawings of the Keren Supra, please send BOTH. I and the people I work with can understand the drawings better when we see several photos of the stove - out and in use. Better still, can you bring samples of the stove and the grate back to Canada? or ship it to my home in Dumaguete City, Negros Oriental, Philippines? </span></div><p data-mce-style="margin: 0px;" style="margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"></span> </p><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">My Skype name is sky.rav . Please send me yours so I can send you an invite to be in my Skype directory - this way we can Skype for free. Otherwise, I'll call you when you get back to Canada where I can call you at zero marginal cost.</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Many thanks,</span></div><div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Verdana','sans-serif';" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Rebecca </span></div></div><div><br></div><hr id="zwchr"><div data-mce-style="color: #000; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;" style="font-size: 12pt; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;"><b>From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>"Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>><br><b>To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br><b>Sent:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Thursday, August 20, 2015 4:13:35 AM<br><b>Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [Stoves] Charcoal burning, secondary flame vs no flame<br><div><br></div><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Dear Rebecca</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I am in Lombok Timur, the town is Selong. I have been looking at applications of biomass burning in the area – about 8 different applications. There are some exciting possibilities for the stoves group to comment on if they wish. They burn everything you can imagine and apply heat to everything possible. So far, lime making, sugar palm, institutional cooking, salt making (do you have salt makers?), brick making tobacco, copra, and just plain cooking. Yesterday I went to see a 5000 ton pile of palm nut shells. Very nice fuel for many applications.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The Keren Super pictures: I have a few from different sides but I think you will be most interested in a drawing with dimensions, no? The one we tested was relatively small – about the same as your stove. All you need to do is copy it and then drop you shell over it for holding the pot. You would leave off the Keren pot stands, using the top only as a retained for your filler. It should out-perform the Keren Super by a little bit based on heat loss. You will have to figure out how to bring in the air from behind. It is important to burning all the charcoal normally produced at the back where there is very little air in the standard stove.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The grate is made from mild steel bars in the sample which is am not too happy about. It should be re-bar if possible (lasts a lot longer because it has more carbon in it) and it can have larger bars (12mm) with 5mm gaps, so fewer of them. Hopefully it can be made locally in Yogyakarta from cast iron for about $2.50. I have a sample.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I have internet in Selong which works on Skype so we can talk. I am in SG time. Saturday I will go back to Yogya to plot all the interventions. The connection there is good.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Design note – the hole for fuel in the Keren should have rounded corners, not the traditional square cut. It will reduce cracking. The sharp corner concentrates stresses and it always cracks there first. It should be more like an airplane window which is that shape for a good reason.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Regards</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Crispin</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p><div><div data-mce-style="border: none; border-top: solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding: 3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;" style="border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span lang="EN-US" data-mce-style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif;" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" data-mce-style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif;" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Stoves [<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Rebecca A. Vermeer<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, August 20, 2015 18:02<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>><br><b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Discussion of biomass <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Stoves] Charcoal burning, secondary flame vs no flame</span></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p><div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style="">Dear Crispin,</span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> </span></p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style="">If you are still in Indonesia right now, would you be able to take more photos of the Improved Keren that would give a 360 degree view of the stove? I agree with your statement that the results you are getting with the Keren Super are possible with my stoves. Perhaps even better results. I hope one day soon that the CSI standards would come to the Philippines as well.</span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style="">I now have the new clay and my potter is making more prototypes of my stoves. The firing of these prototypes will be delayed to about the last week of September to allow for the "curing" of the repairs done to my kiln. I would like to have a verbal discussion with you on Skype -- this would be more efficient and convenient for me as I will be in the Chilcotin smoking salmon next week. Is this possible with you? I do have high speed internet there now so I can receive emails, teleconference and conduct cooking experiments in the Philippines via the internet, among others.</span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style="">Thank you so much for your help.</span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> </span></p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style="">Warm regards,</span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style="">Rebecca</span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> </span></p></div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" data-mce-style="text-align: center;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: center;"><hr id="zwchr" align="center" size="3" width="100%"></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: black;" style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: black;" style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;">"Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>><br><b>To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>"Rebecca A. Vermeer" <<a href="mailto:ravermeer@telus.net" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:ravermeer@telus.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">ravermeer@telus.net</a>>, "Andrew Heggie" <<a href="mailto:ajheggie@gmail.com" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:ajheggie@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">ajheggie@gmail.com</a>>, "Paul Anderson" <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>>, "roberto poehlmann" <<a href="mailto:roberto.poehlmann@grupogtd.com" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:roberto.poehlmann@grupogtd.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">roberto.poehlmann@grupogtd.com</a>>, "Ronal W. Larson" <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>><br><b>Cc:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>"Discussion of biomass" <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>>, "Rebecca Vermeer" <<a href="mailto:ravermeer@telus.net" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:ravermeer@telus.net" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">ravermeer@telus.net</a>>, "Kelpie Wilson" <<a href="mailto:kelpiew@gmail.com" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:kelpiew@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">kelpiew@gmail.com</a>>, "Art Donnelly" <<a href="mailto:art.donnelly@seachar.org" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:art.donnelly@seachar.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">art.donnelly@seachar.org</a>>,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:jonnygms@gmail.com" target="_blank" data-mce-href="mailto:jonnygms@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">jonnygms@gmail.com</a><br><b>Sent:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Monday, August 17, 2015 7:01:03 AM<br><b>Subject:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [Stoves] Charcoal burning, secondary flame vs no flame</span></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: black;" style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"> </span></p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Dear Rebecca</span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" data-mce-style="background: white;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I have some news for you regarding the pot rest height changes we investigated at the Stove Test Camp. </span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" data-mce-style="background: white;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The plan was to lower the pot rest height until the excess air level inside the fire chamber was 'about right'. This is pretty much the only way to control that value with a simple clay stove. Lowering the fuel entrance helps. </span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" data-mce-style="background: white;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">You will recall we looked at the type of flame, it's vigour and the colour as indicators that the EA was about optimised. </span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" data-mce-style="background: white;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The ideas were rooted in a stove now called the Keren Super which is an experimental stove developed in Yogyakarta. It is a very inexpensive stove made from clay purchased from roof tile makers. </span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" data-mce-style="background: white;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I can report that the combination of adding a grate (to burn most of the char normally formed on the floor of a grateless stove), opening an air hole at the back, lowering the pot rests to 7mm, lowering the fuel hole height and making is a little narrower had the effect of improving the fuel efficiency. </span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" data-mce-style="background: white;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Using the CSI burn cycle with its sequence of four power levels, the overall efficiency (similar to the fuel efficiency) increased from 16% to 27%. The average is a little above that value. </span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" data-mce-style="background: white;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The YDD lab reports that the time to boil increased but I did not find this to be so in a series of experiments made using an early prototype in June. With 45% fewer sticks in the fire, it matched the original time of 15 minutes for 5 litres. So let's watch that performance over time. It is between 15 and 20 minutes so far. </span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" data-mce-style="background: white;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The stove costs about $0.50 wholesale and maybe $1.50 retail. It's a lot of bang for the buck. The CO level gets one star (under 12 g/MJ delivered) and the PM is still being checked. It has scored under 300mg /MJ delivered. </span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" data-mce-style="background: white;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I believe all these results are possible with the 'Rebecca stoves.' </span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" data-mce-style="background: white;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Keep on burning</span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Crispin in Lombok Island</span></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: black;" style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"> </span></p><div id="_originalContent"><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style="">Dear Friends,</span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style="">I would like to share with you and all in Stove List, two videos and their respective photo albums on the Cooking Performance of the Whirly Pinay TLUD Stove which I am developing; and the Baking Performance of the Bingka Clay Oven heated by a Whirly Pinay TLUD stove. But before discussing these 2 videos and photo albums, I would like to thank Crispin and Andrew for sharing their views on the amount of CO that is generated in burning residual char in a stove (such as my Eco-Kalan and Whirly Pinay TLUD Clay Stove).</span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> </span></p></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style="">From Crispin:</span></div></div><div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I have taken many measurement of CO/CO2 at various stages and what I see is that in the late burning stage the CO/CO2 ratio is not as bad as many assume – even in a poorly sheltered fire. The combustion of char tends to stabilise at 12-16% CO/CO2 with 14% being common in a ‘cold fire’. It is not true at all that the carbon mostly emerges as CO.</span><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""></span></div></div><div><p data-mce-style="margin: 0cm; margin-bottom: .0001pt;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">To get high CO one has to ‘force’ the production of it such as in a hot, choked, air-inadequate fire. Then one can see the CO/CO2 reach 30% or more. It is not uncommon to see 25% in poorly constructed stoves, but not at the end. Little well-aerated char fires stabilise in that 12-16% range.</span><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""></span></div><p data-mce-style="margin: 0cm; margin-bottom: .0001pt;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">It is often said that “the CO is really high”. That is relative true compared with a really good fire, but CO is highest in hot, bad fires where there is enough energy to create a high burn rate and poor mixing or poor combustion.</span><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""></span></div><p data-mce-style="margin: 0cm; margin-bottom: .0001pt;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">From Andrew:</span><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Your palangay way looks like it is a good candidate for retained heat<br>cooking.<br></span></div><div><br></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> </span></p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Even so the method you mention of allowing char embers to burn out and<br>produce the remaining necessary heat need not necessarily produce a<br>lot of CO. This is because the conditions for a full CO generator<br>require the char to be hot and deep so that oxygen first encountering<br>a hot piece of char will dissociate on the char surface and form CO2,<br>this CO2 then would only be reduced to CO if it encountered another<br>bit of hot char in the absence of any other oxygen, this reduction to<br>CO is also endothermic, so it lowers temperature. Hence if the char<br>bed is shallow and heat is being radiated from it little CO need form<br>but some always will.<br></span></div><div><br></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> </span></p></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: black; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">CRISPIN & ANDREW, THANK YOU! - I take comfort from what you have shared. It encourages me to go on practising the Philippine cultural tradition of cooking rice or corn last the "palangay" way. </span><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: black; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">I have one last question on the CO. How quickly (or slowly) does the CO change to CO2 once it is released to the open air through a chimney or by diffusion from a stove?</span><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""></span></div><p style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: black; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;" style="font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">Now back to the Whirly Pinay TLUD clay stove videos and photos.</span><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""></span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style="">Cooking Bam-i & Rice with Whirly Pinay TLUD Stove, Eco-Kalan Project, June 11, 2015</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""><a href="https://youtu.be/HZhHzQUfrGk" target="_blank" data-mce-href="https://youtu.be/HZhHzQUfrGk" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">https://youtu.be/HZhHzQUfrGk</a></span></div><p data-mce-style="margin: 0cm; margin-bottom: .0001pt;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> June 11, 2015 Cooking Bam-i and Rice with Whirly Pinay TLUD Clay Stove, Eco-Kalan Project</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""><a href="https://plus.google.com/photos/113101643783889350444/albums/6159008359940818145" target="_blank" data-mce-href="https://plus.google.com/photos/113101643783889350444/albums/6159008359940818145" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">https://plus.google.com/photos/113101643783889350444/albums/6159008359940818145</a></span></div><p data-mce-style="margin: 0cm; margin-bottom: .0001pt;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style="">My Comments:</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style="">1. Cooking with the Whirly Pinay can be fun when you start with a "dead" and dry firewood and a strong fire. We don't have a moisture measuring device at Felipa Beach so we put our pre-cut wood in the sun for at least 3 days and store the dry fuel in a covered container. Dry firewood makes starting a strong fire easy. We use kerosene to start a fire and make sure there is sufficient primary air to produce a strong flame before containing the wood gas in a combustion chamber with inlets for the secondary air. I prefer to close the supply of primary air during pyrolysis and to open it to burn the char when cooking rice or soup with leafy vegetables or fish and other seafood at the end. </span></div><p data-mce-style="margin: 0cm; margin-bottom: .0001pt;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style="">2. As a cook using firewood for fuel, I make my decisions on what to do with the char on the basis of its best use. A burning char is best for keeping the food hot without burning the food at the bottom of the pot until it is time to serve. It is best for foods that cook readily and do not require high heat like omelettes, shrimps, and sauces.</span></div><p data-mce-style="margin: 0cm; margin-bottom: .0001pt;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style="">3. As a baker using a Bingka Clay Oven heated by a Whirly Pinay Stove fuelled with wood, I make my decision on what to do with the char on the basis of its best use also. In the baking I have done so far, the oven temperature has to be around 500 degrees Fahrenheit. Burning the char cannot produce sufficient heat to maintain that high a temperature so it does not make sense to burn it. Instead, I save it and mix it with sand and organic matter of which I have plenty of at Felipa Beach. Have a look at the video and photos below.</span></div><p data-mce-style="margin: 0cm; margin-bottom: .0001pt;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> Baking Hopia with Bingka Oven & Whirly Pinay TLUD Stove, Eco-Kalan Project, July 30, 2015</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> <a href="https://youtu.be/vHfSjZINxUA" target="_blank" data-mce-href="https://youtu.be/vHfSjZINxUA" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">https://youtu.be/vHfSjZINxUA</a></span></div><p data-mce-style="margin: 0cm; margin-bottom: .0001pt;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style="">July 30, 2015 Baking Hopia with Bingka Oven and Whirly Pinay TLUD Clay Stove, Eco-Kalan Project</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> <a href="https://plus.google.com/photos/113101643783889350444/albums/6178681391871082273" target="_blank" data-mce-href="https://plus.google.com/photos/113101643783889350444/albums/6178681391871082273" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;">https://plus.google.com/photos/113101643783889350444/albums/6178681391871082273</a></span></div><p data-mce-style="margin: 0cm; margin-bottom: .0001pt;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style="">Warm regards,</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style="">Rebecca Vermeer</span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style="">Eco-Kalan Project in the Philippines</span></div><p data-mce-style="margin: 0cm; margin-bottom: .0001pt;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> </span></p><p data-mce-style="margin: 0cm; margin-bottom: .0001pt;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-size: 11.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: black; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span><span data-mce-style="font-size: 10.0pt; font-family: 'Calibri',sans-serif; color: #1f497d; mso-fareast-language: EN-US;" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><br></span></div><div><br></div></div><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" data-mce-style="text-align: center;" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-align: center;"><hr id="zwchr" align="center" size="3" width="100%"></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="font-family: 'Helvetica',sans-serif; color: black;" style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;"> </span></p></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span data-mce-style="color: black;" style=""> </span></p></div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><div><br></div>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: purple; 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