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    Dear all,<br>
    <br>
    While agreeing with Frank and Dean, I suggest that there are
    sufficient "degrees of torrification" that we should subdivide the
    discussion.<br>
    <br>
    1.  Wet or green wood      High moisture content (MC)<br>
    2.  Dried in 20% MC range<br>
    3.  Dried to 10% MC or less<br>
    4.  Kiln dried   (heated to ???? degrees C)<br>
    5.  Super dried (heated to maybe 120 C)<br>
    6.  Toasted (slightly browning)    120 to 180 C ???<br>
    7.  Early torrified                     180 - 240  C ??<br>
    8.  Fully torrified                240 - 300 C  ??<br>
    9.  Undergoing pyrolysis     above 300 C ???<br>
    10.  And then we have different "chars" based on temperatures during
    production, 400 C,  450 C,  550 C, 700 C, 900 C<br>
    <br>
    LOTS of question marks there.   Frank and others can refine this
    much better.    Issues of MC and temperatures and "names" (and
    related to sufficient time to have the heat impact reach the center
    of the pieces of biomass, not just flash heating), and probably more
    variables.<br>
    <br>
    To just say "torrified" leaves too many uncertainties and possible
    mis-understandings / assumptions by the large number of readers in
    different cultures and with different experiences.<br>
    <br>
    I can say that TLUD stoves (when properly made and with consistent
    MC in the fuels) work very well with the 3, 4, 5, and 6 (above)
    fuels.   They do not like much moisture content, and they do not
    want the fuel to be already partially charred.<br>
    <br>
    Reasonable quality fuel supply is so important for TLUD
    acceptance.   More work could be done about this.<br>
    <br>
    Paul<br>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD  
Email:  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>   
Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/5/2015 11:45 PM, Frank Shields
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:0851BF5C-A14C-43AA-B95E-04730C16E1A7@cruzio.com"
      type="cite">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
        charset=windows-1252">
      Dear Dean, Stovers,
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">I have not worked with stoves but working with all
        types of pellets (paper, manures, etc.) and good quality wood
        pellets I find they burn in pipes very poorly and seem they are
        really just good for pellet stoves dropping in one at a time. </div>
      <div class="">I think you may be on to something in regards to
        torrifying to some extent before using to get a cleaner
        combustion. I see the real challenge is quality control because
        torrification takes place in a very narrow range and it is so
        easy to have a ‘run-a-way’ combustion that heats higher than the
        setting you want. I was able to achieve that in my pipes but
        only after much practice and   s l o w l y    raising the
        temperature to desired amount. Not sure how this would be done
        commercially.  It would be a very interesting project. </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">We also may be able to get clean combustion by
        finding constituents in the pellets (and all biomass for that
        matter) that create these large organic volatile structures that
        give problems and eliminate them from the fuel. </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Regards</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Frank</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">  </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
        <div apple-content-edited="true" class="">
          <div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); letter-spacing: normal;
            orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
            text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
            word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
            word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
            -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">
            <div class="">Frank Shields</div>
            <div class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com" class="">franke@cruzio.com</a></div>
            <div class=""><br class="">
            </div>
          </div>
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
        </div>
        <br class="">
        <div>
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class="">On Sep 3, 2015, at 12:28 PM, Dean Still <<a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com" class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a></a>>
              wrote:</div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
            <div class="">
              <div dir="ltr" class="">Hi Frank,
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                <div class="">After limited experience in Uganda and
                  China my experience is that it's not easy to make
                  clean burning recipes for biomass pellets. 
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">Seems like the torrified pellets emit
                    less PM but we need to do more tests.</div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">Best,</div>
                  <div class=""><br class="">
                  </div>
                  <div class="">Dean</div>
                </div>
              </div>
              <div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
                <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 8:44 AM,
                  Frank Shields <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a
                      moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com" target="_blank"
                      class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com">franke@cruzio.com</a></a>></span> wrote:<br
                    class="">
                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                    .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                    <div dir="auto" class="">
                      <div class="">Dear Chispin and stovers</div>
                      <div class=""><br class="">
                      </div>
                      <div class=""><br class="">
                      </div>
                      <div class="">Of course no mention of the quality
                        of the pellets! In the U.S. The go through
                        standard testing and results labeled</div>
                      <div class="">On bags. But pellets are made of all
                        sorts of materials and energy values and
                        volatile profiles.   It would seem this would be
                        part of the discussion. </div>
                      <div class="">Thanks</div>
                      <div class="">Frank<br class="">
                        <br class="">
                        Sent from my iPhone</div>
                      <div class=""><br class="">
                        On Sep 3, 2015, at 6:13 AM, Crispin
                        Pemberton-Pigott <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com"
                          target="_blank" class="">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>>
                        wrote:<br class="">
                        <br class="">
                      </div>
                      <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                        <div class="">
                          <div class="">
                            <p class="MsoNormal">Dear Friends</p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">There is a broad move
                              around the world to create pelleted fuel
                              from biomass and burn it in tighter
                              spaces. This report was noted in the
                              Alliance for Green Heat newsletter:</p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            <p
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:22.5pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt"
                              class=""><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:blue"
                                class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001d7dcszljjgfEKYA31aaHyRsMRRejQSaDUDJHpy5B3lPW1W0QcteHERbDFukIhEc2-_1cKtvym49J_ai7zvt1WWN26UenG3N6joIskOVraQhcc__S5dpEwVlcw8pbpwWuwRufyvZSstnraBJTXAbr2wOPL-tX7Wypj3swduscC5I1Staun8b2olWMeGwuEsLEKsSA0qsYd2J1B5b7fDXOH7vLn_jPI3y12xty5nULquL9LCJu6LE7P-Ysu5qiL45LFwfyKNL4feu5XOzEawUh0a7X5VAZM8fb7F4K1l1kHGeFIFftvkxNTEEi9J_I05V6LKmiIZSk4GOQXJRAMRf5NDba52L-Wn_9jVkbpqju9Kifq8bMZm_xowV5Qn2NerYbUfu00_a4isbrvL9gktLkSQ==&c=WnPhxOQ3V-ic1ZJ3NBDpcipfRPq-UdIrBKPYwMfkxe-_CRS45fkQ4w==&ch=gnDbpciWOWhz6yV0o8Zdcoli15r_rpgR21xk0iBJKKi_KYRnwLVmTw=="
                                  target="_blank" class=""><b class="">Updated
                                    on the Mt. Vernon pellet stove
                                    recall</b></a></span></p>
                            <p
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:22.5pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt"
                              class=""><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#4f604f"
                                class="">Last month, we reported on the
                                recall of 2,000 Mt. Vernon E2 pellet
                                stoves after about 6 experienced
                                explosions that shattered the glass in
                                the front door. No injuries have been
                                reported. The Alliance wrote to HHT
                                asking for clarifications about what
                                caused the malfunction and whether the
                                stove would be 3rd party tested again
                                for safety. </span><span
                                style="font-size: 8pt; font-family:
                                Verdana, sans-serif;" class=""><a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001d7dcszljjgfEKYA31aaHyRsMRRejQSaDUDJHpy5B3lPW1W0QcteHEfKhE4oT8BuuAHDwJ1L0g7GrKo5I0xEbbDvkpCt65Xds638GUTKpc9WxdvAozGBIprVOl7vL1wQKB10dTQFUofpAQnr3z9i2zwxCfiQA3rCg4PVvKxSMWgMWDhYiC_fJ7rGJlBpUwsdpb9A-KCa9c_WZg3sRbG1GpSOEsBvotEVw3FLKELU68l1aktAt4KqIrr-AbESuj8iSP6u9wdRQU3L5aMshSI5ocFejIUjrSB94PP9Q2h_zrmWcq3brFPbj1VqWZSiFfmDp50WpCw2b2SOvJ-9NqzbOgn8sgdzIHO2tNWqczgkuFI6d7bzwPt4D_g==&c=WnPhxOQ3V-ic1ZJ3NBDpcipfRPq-UdIrBKPYwMfkxe-_CRS45fkQ4w==&ch=gnDbpciWOWhz6yV0o8Zdcoli15r_rpgR21xk0iBJKKi_KYRnwLVmTw=="
                                  target="_blank" class=""><b class=""><span
                                      style="color:#4f604f" class="">Click
                                      here</span></b></a></span><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#4f604f"
                                class=""> for a copy of the HHT
                                response.</span><span style="font-size:
                                8pt; font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"
                                class=""></span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#4f604f"
                                class=""> </span></p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">The drive to create
                              better combustion often means having a
                              staged gasification-then-burning type of
                              design. That may be a source of problems.</p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">I know of at least one
                              instance of a very modern TLUD coal stove
                              explosion in Ulaanbaatar when the operator
                              refuelled it with a significant amount of
                              lignite (high volatiles) while it was
                              already very hot. This generated a huge
                              amount of combustible gas while
                              simultaneously extinguishing the gas
                              flame.  Eventually it heated up to the
                              point that the gas ignited and it blew
                              flaming fuel out of the top of the stove,
                              around the room.  A public education
                              campaign tried to prevent exactly this
                              sort of mis-operation.</p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">Regards</p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal">Crispin</p>
                            <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <blockquote type="cite" class="">
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                  </blockquote>
                </div>
                <br class="">
                <br class="" clear="all">
                <div class=""><br class="">
                </div>
                -- <br class="">
                <div class="gmail_signature">
                  <div dir="ltr" class="">
                    <div class="">
                      <div class="">Dean Still</div>
                      <div dir="ltr" class="">Executive Director
                        <div class="">Aprovecho Research Center</div>
                        <div class="">PO Box 1175</div>
                        <div class="">76132 Blue Mountain School Road</div>
                        <div class="">Cottage Grove, OR 97424</div>
                        <div class="">(541) 767-0287</div>
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      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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</pre>
    </blockquote>
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