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<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial>Frank and All,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial>Julian Winter and I have both been experimenting
with the combustor section of the ND-TLUD stove to improve the burning of the
wood gas. Jock Gill was also trying some inovative things. I have
not heard how Jock's design worked out, but Julian and I have had some good
results. I belive that changing the combustion set-up, as you
mention, can help. At the Aprovecho open house after ETHOS last
January, some stovers tried one of my Wonderwerk Strata test combustors on
a forced air rice hull stove and it cleaned the flame quite nicely. A good
combustor should be able to effectively burn most gas
combinations that come it's way. It should include good mixing of gas
and air, concentration of the heat, and an extended dwell time for the
flame in that concentrated heat. The Strata test combustor includes all of
these. It could be made adjustable for specific fuels. Putting a
production line version on top of a marginal TLUD would improve its
performance. Since many TLUDs are marginal, this could be a simple way to
clean them up without having to redesign, rebuild or replace the stove
itself. The Strata combustor principles will have little to no effect on a
well designed TLUD, but should work quite well for any TLUD that has a
diffusion flame comming out of it, and make it into a tier 4 stove
combination. Strata test combustors have tested at tier 4
at Aprovecho in the past.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial>With respect,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial>Kirk</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4 face=Arial>Santa Rosa, CA. USA</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=franke@cruzio.com href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com">Frank Shields</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=lambertm1@aol.com
href="mailto:lambertm1@aol.com">Marvin Lambert - Calif.-S.F.</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, September 09, 2015 9:42
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] Torrifaction topics
Re: Pellet stoves - risks</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Dear Alex,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I think the fuel and the environment above the fuel is both of equal
importance. So do we change the fuel or the combustion set-up? that is the
question. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>A stove system that is able to burn a wide variety of fuels and widely
sold may be difficult and/or expensive to make adjustments for a specific
fuel. So in this case if it is easy to change the fuel that may be preferred.
I think the answer to change the fuel or the stove system depends on the
amount of work and expense involved. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Thats the way I look at it today. : )</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Regards</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Frank</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Arial></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV apple-content-edited="true">
<DIV
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-WRAP: break-word; WHITE-SPACE: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px">
<DIV>Frank Shields</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com">franke@cruzio.com</A></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline><BR
class=Apple-interchange-newline></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>On Sep 9, 2015, at 9:23 AM, alex english <<A
href="mailto:aenglish444@gmail.com">aenglish444@gmail.com</A>>
wrote:</DIV><BR class=Apple-interchange-newline>
<DIV>
<P dir=ltr>Frank,<BR>If there are emissions that derive from fuel directly
and then escape further 'processing' by flame environments by sneaking by ,
then they might be called something like primary fuel derived emissions.
PFDEs. It is safe to say, I think,that most of these would be transformed
into products of complete or incomplete combustion in and around the flame.
I may be confused, but this mix would likely have less to do with the fuel
than the environment above fuel.<BR>Hmm<BR>Alex</P>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On 2015-09-09 8:55 AM, "Frank Shields" <<A
href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com">franke@cruzio.com</A>> wrote:<BR
type="attribution">
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">Dear Paul and Stovers,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>For ‘user-acceptance’ and ‘market driven’ I would think preparing the
fuel optimized for your stove that quickly boils water with little dirty
emissions is one and the same.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I would think that would be drying and, perhaps as Dean has
mentioned, driving off some of the early volatiles that may pass the
secondary before complete combustion.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Paul - Do you have information as to the optimum size and shape the
biomass should be for your stove? That should be determined.</DIV>
<DIV>Then we go to testing the parameters of the biomass like carbon bulk
density and carbon particle density along with water soluble sugars
and lipids that may contribute to poor emissions. It could be as
simple as soaking and draining out constituents to improve the quality as
well as heating to drive off the early volatiles. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>But first we need to find what it is in the fuel that causes the poor
emissions. That could be to take some problem biomass and get a baseline
from testing. </DIV>
<DIV>Then pre-heat to drive off early volatiles and re-test. Then using
another batch soak in hot water, drain, dry and re-test. And finally soak
in a solvent, drain, dry and re-test. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Using emissions tests to get ratios of emission components and
particles might be enough to determine success. Or add helium surrogate to
get absolute concentrations as they are produced might be info that would
help. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Regards</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Frank</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-WRAP: break-word; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px">
<DIV>Frank Shields</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com"
target=_blank>franke@cruzio.com</A></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV><BR><BR></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>On Sep 9, 2015, at 8:20 AM, Paul Anderson <<A
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu"
target=_blank>psanders@ilstu.edu</A>> wrote:</DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Frank and Stovers,<BR><BR>My
simplistic interest in the "induced drying" of biomass fuels is related
to improving the user-acceptance of the TLUD cookstoves and the
establishment of some fuel marketing chain. The degree of
drying / torrification would be market driven, not related to emissions
or technical characteristics of the resultant fuels.
<BR><BR>As the degree of drying / heating of the fuels increases, the
cost of that processing will rise. So I favor the minimum
treatment that will benefit the customer and will justify the increase
in fuel price. <BR><BR>A favorable situation would be to use
essentially waste heat to prepare the future fuel supplies. Or
expend a small amount of fuel to prepare a much larger amount of fuel
that will be sold with sustainable profitability.<BR><BR>Paul<BR><PRE cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <A href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target=_blank>psanders@ilstu.edu</A>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <A href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" target=_blank value="+13094527072">+1-309-452-7072</A>
Website: <A href="http://www.drtlud.com/" target=_blank>www.drtlud.com</A></PRE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"><BR>
<DIV>On 9/8/2015 3:55 PM, Frank Shields wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Dear Paul,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Making batches of different degrees of torrification biofuels
is one thing and then testing and interpreting the results is
another. </DIV>
<DIV>Do we measure success on emissions or time it takes to boil
water? And them we have other variables like bulk carbon density and
particle carbon density. Volatiles and adding moisture. Size and
shape will be important. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>So once we figure out a way of making constant quality material
for testing there is still a lot of research work to do. Agreeing on
what we use as a measure of success is the first.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>regards</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Frank</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-WRAP: break-word; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px">
<DIV>Frank Shields</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com"
target=_blank>franke@cruzio.com</A></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV><BR><BR></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>On Sep 6, 2015, at 5:32 AM, Paul Anderson <<A
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu"
target=_blank>psanders@ilstu.edu</A>> wrote:</DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Dear all,<BR><BR>While
agreeing with Frank and Dean, I suggest that there are sufficient
"degrees of torrification" that we should subdivide the
discussion.<BR><BR>1. Wet or green
wood High moisture content
(MC)<BR>2. Dried in 20% MC range<BR>3. Dried to 10% MC
or less<BR>4. Kiln dried (heated to ???? degrees
C)<BR>5. Super dried (heated to maybe 120 C)<BR>6.
Toasted (slightly browning) 120 to 180 C
???<BR>7. Early
torrified
180 - 240 C ??<BR>8. Fully
torrified
240 - 300 C ??<BR>9. Undergoing
pyrolysis above 300 C ???<BR>10. And
then we have different "chars" based on temperatures during
production, 400 C, 450 C, 550 C, 700 C, 900
C<BR><BR>LOTS of question marks there. Frank and
others can refine this much better. Issues of MC
and temperatures and "names" (and related to sufficient time to
have the heat impact reach the center of the pieces of biomass,
not just flash heating), and probably more variables.<BR><BR>To
just say "torrified" leaves too many uncertainties and possible
mis-understandings / assumptions by the large number of readers in
different cultures and with different experiences.<BR><BR>I can
say that TLUD stoves (when properly made and with consistent MC in
the fuels) work very well with the 3, 4, 5, and 6 (above)
fuels. They do not like much moisture content, and
they do not want the fuel to be already partially
charred.<BR><BR>Reasonable quality fuel supply is so important for
TLUD acceptance. More work could be done about
this.<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR><PRE cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <A href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target=_blank>psanders@ilstu.edu</A>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <A href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" target=_blank value="+13094527072">+1-309-452-7072</A>
Website: <A href="http://www.drtlud.com/" target=_blank>www.drtlud.com</A></PRE>
<DIV>On 9/5/2015 11:45 PM, Frank Shields wrote:<BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">Dear Dean, Stovers,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I have not worked with stoves but working with all types of
pellets (paper, manures, etc.) and good quality wood pellets I
find they burn in pipes very poorly and seem they are really
just good for pellet stoves dropping in one at a
time. </DIV>
<DIV>I think you may be on to something in regards to torrifying
to some extent before using to get a cleaner combustion. I see
the real challenge is quality control because torrification
takes place in a very narrow range and it is so easy to have a
‘run-a-way’ combustion that heats higher than the setting you
want. I was able to achieve that in my pipes but only after much
practice and s l o w l y raising the
temperature to desired amount. Not sure how this would be done
commercially. It would be a very interesting
project. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>We also may be able to get clean combustion by finding
constituents in the pellets (and all biomass for that matter)
that create these large organic volatile structures that give
problems and eliminate them from the fuel. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Regards</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Frank</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-WRAP: break-word; WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px">
<DIV>Frank Shields</DIV>
<DIV><A href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com"
target=_blank>franke@cruzio.com</A></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV><BR><BR></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>On Sep 3, 2015, at 12:28 PM, Dean Still <<A
href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com"
target=_blank>deankstill@gmail.com</A>> wrote:</DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Hi Frank,
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>After limited experience in Uganda and China my
experience is that it's not easy to make clean burning recipes
for biomass pellets.
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Seems like the torrified pellets emit less PM but we need
to do more tests.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Best,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Dean</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Thu, Sep 3, 2015 at 8:44 AM, Frank
Shields <SPAN dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com"
target=_blank></A><A href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com"
target=_blank>franke@cruzio.com</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>
<DIV>
<DIV>Dear Chispin and stovers</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Of course no mention of the quality of the pellets! In
the U.S. The go through standard testing and results
labeled</DIV>
<DIV>On bags. But pellets are made of all sorts of materials
and energy values and volatile profiles. It would
seem this would be part of the discussion. </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks</DIV>
<DIV>Frank<BR><BR>Sent from my iPhone</DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Sep 3, 2015, at 6:13 AM, Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott <<A
href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com" target=_blank></A><A
href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com"
target=_blank>crispinpigott@outlook.com</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Dear Friends</P>
<DIV><BR> </DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>There is a broad move around the world
to create pelleted fuel from biomass and burn it in
tighter spaces. This report was noted in the Alliance for
Green Heat newsletter:</P>
<DIV><BR> </DIV>
<P
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 22.5pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana',sans-serif; COLOR: blue; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><A
href="http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001d7dcszljjgfEKYA31aaHyRsMRRejQSaDUDJHpy5B3lPW1W0QcteHERbDFukIhEc2-_1cKtvym49J_ai7zvt1WWN26UenG3N6joIskOVraQhcc__S5dpEwVlcw8pbpwWuwRufyvZSstnraBJTXAbr2wOPL-tX7Wypj3swduscC5I1Staun8b2olWMeGwuEsLEKsSA0qsYd2J1B5b7fDXOH7vLn_jPI3y12xty5nULquL9LCJu6LE7P-Ysu5qiL45LFwfyKNL4feu5XOzEawUh0a7X5VAZM8fb7F4K1l1kHGeFIFftvkxNTEEi9J_I05V6LKmiIZSk4GOQXJRAMRf5NDba52L-Wn_9jVkbpqju9Kifq8bMZm_xowV5Qn2NerYbUfu00_a4isbrvL9gktLkSQ==&c=WnPhxOQ3V-ic1ZJ3NBDpcipfRPq-UdIrBKPYwMfkxe-_CRS45fkQ4w==&ch=gnDbpciWOWhz6yV0o8Zdcoli15r_rpgR21xk0iBJKKi_KYRnwLVmTw=="
target=_blank><B>Updated on the Mt. Vernon pellet stove
recall</B></A></SPAN></P>
<P
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 22.5pt; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0cm"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana',sans-serif; COLOR: #4f604f; FONT-SIZE: 8pt">Last
month, we reported on the recall of 2,000 Mt. Vernon E2
pellet stoves after about 6 experienced explosions
that shattered the glass in the front door. No injuries
have been reported. The Alliance wrote to HHT asking for
clarifications about what caused the malfunction and
whether the stove would be 3rd party tested again for
safety. </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"><A
href="http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001d7dcszljjgfEKYA31aaHyRsMRRejQSaDUDJHpy5B3lPW1W0QcteHEfKhE4oT8BuuAHDwJ1L0g7GrKo5I0xEbbDvkpCt65Xds638GUTKpc9WxdvAozGBIprVOl7vL1wQKB10dTQFUofpAQnr3z9i2zwxCfiQA3rCg4PVvKxSMWgMWDhYiC_fJ7rGJlBpUwsdpb9A-KCa9c_WZg3sRbG1GpSOEsBvotEVw3FLKELU68l1aktAt4KqIrr-AbESuj8iSP6u9wdRQU3L5aMshSI5ocFejIUjrSB94PP9Q2h_zrmWcq3brFPbj1VqWZSiFfmDp50WpCw2b2SOvJ-9NqzbOgn8sgdzIHO2tNWqczgkuFI6d7bzwPt4D_g==&c=WnPhxOQ3V-ic1ZJ3NBDpcipfRPq-UdIrBKPYwMfkxe-_CRS45fkQ4w==&ch=gnDbpciWOWhz6yV0o8Zdcoli15r_rpgR21xk0iBJKKi_KYRnwLVmTw=="
target=_blank><B><SPAN style="COLOR: #4f604f">Click
here</SPAN></B></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana',sans-serif; COLOR: #4f604f; FONT-SIZE: 8pt">
for a copy of the HHT response.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana,sans-serif; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"></SPAN></P>
<DIV><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Verdana',sans-serif; COLOR: #4f604f; FONT-SIZE: 8pt"></SPAN><BR> </DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>The drive to create better combustion
often means having a staged gasification-then-burning type
of design. That may be a source of problems.</P>
<DIV><BR> </DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>I know of at least one instance of a
very modern TLUD coal stove explosion in Ulaanbaatar when
the operator refuelled it with a significant amount of
lignite (high volatiles) while it was already very hot.
This generated a huge amount of combustible gas while
simultaneously extinguishing the gas flame.
Eventually it heated up to the point that the gas ignited
and it blew flaming fuel out of the top of the stove,
around the room. A public education campaign tried
to prevent exactly this sort of mis-operation.</P>
<DIV><BR> </DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Regards</P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Crispin</P>
<DIV><BR> </DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
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clear=all>
<DIV><BR></DIV>-- <BR>
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>
<DIV>Dean Still</DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>Executive Director
<DIV>Aprovecho Research Center</DIV>
<DIV>PO Box 1175</DIV>
<DIV>76132 Blue Mountain School Road</DIV>
<DIV>Cottage Grove, OR 97424</DIV>
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<P align=left color="#000000" avgcert??>No virus found in this
message.<BR>Checked by AVG - <A
href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</A><BR>Version: 2015.0.6125 / Virus
Database: 4409/10604 - Release Date: 09/09/15</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>