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    Frank and Stovers,<br>
    <br>
    My simplistic interest in the "induced drying" of biomass fuels is
    related to improving the user-acceptance of the TLUD cookstoves and
    the establishment of some fuel marketing chain.   The degree of
    drying / torrification would be market driven, not related to
    emissions or technical characteristics of the resultant fuels.   <br>
    <br>
    As the degree of drying / heating of the fuels increases, the cost
    of that processing will rise.   So I favor the minimum treatment
    that will benefit the customer and will justify the increase in fuel
    price.   <br>
    <br>
    A favorable situation would be to use essentially waste heat to
    prepare the future fuel supplies.  Or expend a small amount of fuel
    to prepare a much larger amount of fuel that will be sold with
    sustainable profitability.<br>
    <br>
    Paul<br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD  
Email:  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>   
Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
    <blockquote cite="mid:55EFA809.5040302@ilstu.edu" type="cite">
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      <br>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/8/2015 3:55 PM, Frank Shields
        wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote
        cite="mid:1FA54CB1-420B-494E-B619-818DE06A704A@cruzio.com"
        type="cite">
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        Dear Paul,
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">Making batches of different degrees of
          torrification biofuels is one thing and then testing and
          interpreting the results is another. </div>
        <div class="">Do we measure success on emissions or time it
          takes to boil water? And them we have other variables like
          bulk carbon density and particle carbon density. Volatiles and
          adding moisture. Size and shape will be important. </div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">So once we figure out a way of making constant
          quality material for testing there is still a lot of research
          work to do. Agreeing on what we use as a measure of success is
          the first.</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">regards</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class="">Frank</div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
        </div>
        <div class=""><br class="">
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              <div class="">Frank Shields</div>
              <div class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com" class="">franke@cruzio.com</a></div>
              <div class=""><br class="">
              </div>
            </div>
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
            <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
          </div>
          <br class="">
          <div>
            <blockquote type="cite" class="">
              <div class="">On Sep 6, 2015, at 5:32 AM, Paul Anderson
                <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                  href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>>
                wrote:</div>
              <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
              <div class="">
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                <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000" class=""> Dear
                  all,<br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  While agreeing with Frank and Dean, I suggest that
                  there are sufficient "degrees of torrification" that
                  we should subdivide the discussion.<br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  1.  Wet or green wood      High moisture content (MC)<br
                    class="">
                  2.  Dried in 20% MC range<br class="">
                  3.  Dried to 10% MC or less<br class="">
                  4.  Kiln dried   (heated to ???? degrees C)<br
                    class="">
                  5.  Super dried (heated to maybe 120 C)<br class="">
                  6.  Toasted (slightly browning)    120 to 180 C ???<br
                    class="">
                  7.  Early torrified                     180 - 240  C
                  ??<br class="">
                  8.  Fully torrified                240 - 300 C  ??<br
                    class="">
                  9.  Undergoing pyrolysis     above 300 C ???<br
                    class="">
                  10.  And then we have different "chars" based on
                  temperatures during production, 400 C,  450 C,  550 C,
                  700 C, 900 C<br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  LOTS of question marks there.   Frank and others can
                  refine this much better.    Issues of MC and
                  temperatures and "names" (and related to sufficient
                  time to have the heat impact reach the center of the
                  pieces of biomass, not just flash heating), and
                  probably more variables.<br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  To just say "torrified" leaves too many uncertainties
                  and possible mis-understandings / assumptions by the
                  large number of readers in different cultures and with
                  different experiences.<br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  I can say that TLUD stoves (when properly made and
                  with consistent MC in the fuels) work very well with
                  the 3, 4, 5, and 6 (above) fuels.   They do not like
                  much moisture content, and they do not want the fuel
                  to be already partially charred.<br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  Reasonable quality fuel supply is so important for
                  TLUD acceptance.   More work could be done about this.<br
                    class="">
                  <br class="">
                  Paul<br class="">
                  <br class="">
                  <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD  
Email:  <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>   
Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com/">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
                  <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/5/2015 11:45 PM,
                    Frank Shields wrote:<br class="">
                  </div>
                  <blockquote
                    cite="mid:0851BF5C-A14C-43AA-B95E-04730C16E1A7@cruzio.com"
                    type="cite" class="">
                    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
                      charset=windows-1252" class="">
                    Dear Dean, Stovers,
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">I have not worked with stoves but
                      working with all types of pellets (paper, manures,
                      etc.) and good quality wood pellets I find they
                      burn in pipes very poorly and seem they are really
                      just good for pellet stoves dropping in one at a
                      time. </div>
                    <div class="">I think you may be on to something in
                      regards to torrifying to some extent before using
                      to get a cleaner combustion. I see the real
                      challenge is quality control because torrification
                      takes place in a very narrow range and it is so
                      easy to have a ‘run-a-way’ combustion that heats
                      higher than the setting you want. I was able to
                      achieve that in my pipes but only after much
                      practice and   s l o w l y    raising the
                      temperature to desired amount. Not sure how this
                      would be done commercially.  It would be a very
                      interesting project. </div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">We also may be able to get clean
                      combustion by finding constituents in the pellets
                      (and all biomass for that matter) that create
                      these large organic volatile structures that give
                      problems and eliminate them from the fuel. </div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">Regards</div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">Frank</div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class="">  </div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                    </div>
                    <div class=""><br class="">
                      <div apple-content-edited="true" class="">
                        <div style="letter-spacing: normal; orphans:
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                          class="">
                          <div class="">Frank Shields</div>
                          <div class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com" class="">franke@cruzio.com</a></div>
                          <div class=""><br class="">
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                        <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                      </div>
                      <br class="">
                      <div class="">
                        <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                          <div class="">On Sep 3, 2015, at 12:28 PM,
                            Dean Still <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                              href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com">deankstill@gmail.com</a>>


                            wrote:</div>
                          <br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
                          <div class="">
                            <div dir="ltr" class="">Hi Frank,
                              <div class=""><br class="">
                              </div>
                              <div class="">After limited experience in
                                Uganda and China my experience is that
                                it's not easy to make clean burning
                                recipes for biomass pellets. 
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <div class="">Seems like the torrified
                                  pellets emit less PM but we need to do
                                  more tests.</div>
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <div class="">Best,</div>
                                <div class=""><br class="">
                                </div>
                                <div class="">Dean</div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                            <div class="gmail_extra"><br class="">
                              <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 3,
                                2015 at 8:44 AM, Frank Shields <span
                                  dir="ltr" class=""><<a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                                    href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com">franke@cruzio.com</a></a>></span>
                                wrote:<br class="">
                                <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                  style="margin:0 0 0
                                  .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
                                  solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                  <div dir="auto" class="">
                                    <div class="">Dear Chispin and
                                      stovers</div>
                                    <div class=""><br class="">
                                    </div>
                                    <div class=""><br class="">
                                    </div>
                                    <div class="">Of course no mention
                                      of the quality of the pellets! In
                                      the U.S. The go through standard
                                      testing and results labeled</div>
                                    <div class="">On bags. But pellets
                                      are made of all sorts of materials
                                      and energy values and volatile
                                      profiles.   It would seem this
                                      would be part of the discussion. </div>
                                    <div class="">Thanks</div>
                                    <div class="">Frank<br class="">
                                      <br class="">
                                      Sent from my iPhone</div>
                                    <div class=""><br class="">
                                      On Sep 3, 2015, at 6:13 AM,
                                      Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a
                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
                                        class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a></a>>


                                      wrote:<br class="">
                                      <br class="">
                                    </div>
                                    <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                                      <div class="">
                                        <div class="">
                                          <p class="MsoNormal">Dear
                                            Friends</p>
                                          <div class=""> <br
                                              class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                          </div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal">There is
                                            a broad move around the
                                            world to create pelleted
                                            fuel from biomass and burn
                                            it in tighter spaces. This
                                            report was noted in the
                                            Alliance for Green Heat
                                            newsletter:</p>
                                          <div class=""> <br
                                              class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                          </div>
                                          <p
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:22.5pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt"
                                            class=""><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:blue"
                                              class=""><a
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001d7dcszljjgfEKYA31aaHyRsMRRejQSaDUDJHpy5B3lPW1W0QcteHERbDFukIhEc2-_1cKtvym49J_ai7zvt1WWN26UenG3N6joIskOVraQhcc__S5dpEwVlcw8pbpwWuwRufyvZSstnraBJTXAbr2wOPL-tX7Wypj3swduscC5I1Staun8b2olWMeGwuEsLEKsSA0qsYd2J1B5b7fDXOH7vLn_jPI3y12xty5nULquL9LCJu6LE7P-Ysu5qiL45LFwfyKNL4feu5XOzEawUh0a7X5VAZM8fb7F4K1l1kHGeFIFftvkxNTEEi9J_I05V6LKmiIZSk4GOQXJRAMRf5NDba52L-Wn_9jVkbpqju9Kifq8bMZm_xowV5Qn2NerYbUfu00_a4isbrvL9gktLkSQ==&c=WnPhxOQ3V-ic1ZJ3NBDpcipfRPq-UdIrBKPYwMfkxe-_CRS45fkQ4w==&ch=gnDbpciWOWhz6yV0o8Zdcoli15r_rpgR21xk0iBJKKi_KYRnwLVmTw=="
                                                target="_blank" class=""><b
                                                  class="">Updated on
                                                  the Mt. Vernon pellet
                                                  stove recall</b></a></span></p>
                                          <p
style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:22.5pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt"
                                            class=""><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#4f604f"
                                              class="">Last month, we
                                              reported on the recall of
                                              2,000 Mt. Vernon E2 pellet
                                              stoves after about 6
                                              experienced explosions
                                              that shattered the glass
                                              in the front door. No
                                              injuries have been
                                              reported. The Alliance
                                              wrote to HHT asking for
                                              clarifications about what
                                              caused the malfunction and
                                              whether the stove would be
                                              3rd party tested again for
                                              safety. </span><span
                                              style="font-size: 8pt;
                                              font-family: Verdana,
                                              sans-serif;" class=""><a
                                                moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?f=001d7dcszljjgfEKYA31aaHyRsMRRejQSaDUDJHpy5B3lPW1W0QcteHEfKhE4oT8BuuAHDwJ1L0g7GrKo5I0xEbbDvkpCt65Xds638GUTKpc9WxdvAozGBIprVOl7vL1wQKB10dTQFUofpAQnr3z9i2zwxCfiQA3rCg4PVvKxSMWgMWDhYiC_fJ7rGJlBpUwsdpb9A-KCa9c_WZg3sRbG1GpSOEsBvotEVw3FLKELU68l1aktAt4KqIrr-AbESuj8iSP6u9wdRQU3L5aMshSI5ocFejIUjrSB94PP9Q2h_zrmWcq3brFPbj1VqWZSiFfmDp50WpCw2b2SOvJ-9NqzbOgn8sgdzIHO2tNWqczgkuFI6d7bzwPt4D_g==&c=WnPhxOQ3V-ic1ZJ3NBDpcipfRPq-UdIrBKPYwMfkxe-_CRS45fkQ4w==&ch=gnDbpciWOWhz6yV0o8Zdcoli15r_rpgR21xk0iBJKKi_KYRnwLVmTw=="
                                                target="_blank" class=""><b
                                                  class=""><span
                                                    style="color:#4f604f"
                                                    class="">Click here</span></b></a></span><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#4f604f"
                                              class=""> for a copy of
                                              the HHT response.</span><span
                                              style="font-size: 8pt;
                                              font-family: Verdana,
                                              sans-serif;" class=""></span></p>
                                          <div class=""><span
style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#4f604f"
                                              class=""> </span><br
                                              class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                          </div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal">The drive
                                            to create better combustion
                                            often means having a staged
                                            gasification-then-burning
                                            type of design. That may be
                                            a source of problems.</p>
                                          <div class=""> <br
                                              class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                          </div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal">I know of
                                            at least one instance of a
                                            very modern TLUD coal stove
                                            explosion in Ulaanbaatar
                                            when the operator refuelled
                                            it with a significant amount
                                            of lignite (high volatiles)
                                            while it was already very
                                            hot. This generated a huge
                                            amount of combustible gas
                                            while simultaneously
                                            extinguishing the gas
                                            flame.  Eventually it heated
                                            up to the point that the gas
                                            ignited and it blew flaming
                                            fuel out of the top of the
                                            stove, around the room.  A
                                            public education campaign
                                            tried to prevent exactly
                                            this sort of mis-operation.</p>
                                          <div class=""> <br
                                              class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                          </div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal">Regards</p>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal">Crispin</p>
                                          <div class=""> <br
                                              class="webkit-block-placeholder">
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </blockquote>
                                    <blockquote type="cite" class="">
                                      <div class=""><span class="">_______________________________________________</span><br
                                          class="">
                                        <span class="">Stoves mailing
                                          list</span><br class="">
                                        <span class=""></span><br
                                          class="">
                                        <span class="">to Send a Message
                                          to the list, use the email
                                          address</span><br class="">
                                        <span class=""><a
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a></a></span><br
                                          class="">
                                        <span class=""></span><br
                                          class="">
                                        <span class="">to UNSUBSCRIBE or
                                          Change your List Settings use
                                          the web page</span><br
                                          class="">
                                        <span class=""><a
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a></a></span><br
                                          class="">
                                        <span class=""></span><br
                                          class="">
                                        <span class="">for more Biomass
                                          Cooking Stoves,  News and
                                          Information see our web site:</span><br
                                          class="">
                                        <span class=""><a
                                            moz-do-not-send="true"
                                            class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a></a></span><br
                                          class="">
                                        <span class=""></span><br
                                          class="">
                                      </div>
                                    </blockquote>
                                  </div>
                                  <br class="">
_______________________________________________<br class="">
                                  Stoves mailing list<br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  to Send a Message to the list, use the
                                  email address<br class="">
                                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
                                    class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br
                                    class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List
                                  Settings use the web page<br class="">
                                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"
                                    rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                    class="">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br
                                    class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News
                                  and Information see our web site:<br
                                    class="">
                                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/"
                                    rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                                    class="">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br
                                    class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                  <br class="">
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                              <br class="">
                              <br class="" clear="all">
                              <div class=""><br class="">
                              </div>
                              -- <br class="">
                              <div class="gmail_signature">
                                <div dir="ltr" class="">
                                  <div class="">
                                    <div class="">Dean Still</div>
                                    <div dir="ltr" class="">Executive
                                      Director
                                      <div class="">Aprovecho Research
                                        Center</div>
                                      <div class="">PO Box 1175</div>
                                      <div class="">76132 Blue Mountain
                                        School Road</div>
                                      <div class="">Cottage Grove, OR
                                        97424</div>
                                      <div class="">(541) 767-0287</div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
_______________________________________________<br class="">
                            Stoves mailing list<br class="">
                            <br class="">
                            to Send a Message to the list, use the email
                            address<br class="">
                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"
                              class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br
                              class="">
                            <br class="">
                            to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings
                            use the web page<br class="">
                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br
                              class="">
                            <br class="">
                            for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and
                            Information see our web site:<br class="">
                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                              href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br
                              class="">
                            <br class="">
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                      <br class="">
                    </div>
                    <br class="">
                    <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
                    <br class="">
                    <pre class="" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list

to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>

to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>

for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a>

</pre>
                  </blockquote>
                  <br class="">
                </div>
                _______________________________________________<br
                  class="">
                Stoves mailing list<br class="">
                <br class="">
                to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br
                  class="">
                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br
                  class="">
                <br class="">
                to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web
                page<br class="">
                <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br
                  class="">
                <br class="">
                for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information
                see our web site:<br class="">
                <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                  href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br
                  class="">
                <br class="">
              </div>
            </blockquote>
          </div>
          <br class="">
        </div>
        <br>
        <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
        <br>
        <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Stoves mailing list

to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>

to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a>

for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a>

</pre>
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