<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Patent what exactly for whom eh ?we experience same issues in the biomass briquette extexsion efforts. Conclude very similar things with a few nuances:</div><div>1) agreed most will seek to adapt to their locally available resource situation. You protect </div><div>2) Patenting an intentionally global distribution of lo tech or at least intentionally easily replicable tech is a non starter feeding only the legal profession.</div><div>3) Shipping warehousing and management of production is generally not what the innovator is equipped to do well.</div><div><br></div><div>4)still we need tobe compensated for our own unique contributions. </div><div>My own conclusion is to simply publish plans and operation maintenance instructions based on not only an idea i and a few other tecchies cooked up but a product or technique embellished by real world user experience with due credit to contributers . We also add references to any interested manufacturers. </div><div><br></div><div>This tends to encourage localised accountable capitalism globally witout the kind of image posturing and branding agenda of a centralised operaton.</div><div><br></div><div>It works folks.</div><div>Richard Stanley </div><div><a href="http://Www.legacyfound.org">Www.legacyfound.org</a></div><div><br></div><div>Coming soon manual for the Molino ta Mano for processing ag and commercial residues --For wet process briquetting;</div><div><br></div><div><img src="cid:2B5E9E62-83D1-4143-801E-9649DC6CCD0D" alt="image1.JPG" id="2B5E9E62-83D1-4143-801E-9649DC6CCD0D"><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Sep 12, 2015, at 08:39, Paul Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div>
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
Jed, Art and all, Note: this Thread started on
Biochar-stove ListServ and I am cross-posting to the Stoves
Listserv because it relates to that larger audience also.
( a Dr TLUD posting to that website)<br>
<br>
My experience during the evolution of the TLUD stoves (plural, with
MANY stove variations) is that very few people want to exactly copy
or replicate what someone else has done. That can be frustrating to
the initial developers because they tend to see the new efforts as a
step backward or a deviation. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. If
objectively "tested" in practical ways, many of the small
incremental changes can eventually become widely accepted. <br>
<br>
Using JED's product as an example: There could be changes in one or
more of the nine pieces. He might or might not like the changes.
That is part of the price of freely sharing. And as things evolve,
the chances are very slim of JED getting any financial reward from
some evolved product in a far away country. And the person there
would like to have some reward from his or her product, but chances
of financial reward are also unlikely, even to make a sustainable
income locally by creating a job for that person or a small group of
tinsmiths or potters. <br>
<br>
These cookstoves are not products with high margins for profit. In
general, people and companies do NOT copy the products of others
unless the prospects of good solid profits are proven, and by
definition that means that the originator has proven
profitability. People copy success, not effort.<br>
<br>
Every once in a while there is a "business" established for making a
stove. That business will not last very long if it does not pay
its bills (or cannot please its financial supporters). In the TLUD
world, when BP made the Oorja stove, nobody copied it. The Prime
Stove is in production in Indonesia and (I believe) it has
reasonable success, but nobody is copying it. Servals makes the
Champion stove, but identical copies are not being made. But there
is a series of "Champion-style" TLUDs that include the Mwoto, Quad,
and Troika designs that maintain basically the same proportional
dimensions as the original Champion in 2005. Please copy it!! and
show us your enhancements. <br>
<br>
In the category of "fan-jet" (high turbulence) micro-gasifers (which
are not TLUDs, by the way), there are five known companies with
different cookstove products and they all claim patented rights:
Philips/ACE, Biolite, Worldstove Lucia-FA, Turbo-cosina, and
SalvaBosque. But nobody is copying the other very closely and
nobody else is likely to try to make a direct "knock off" copy
because none are so financially successful to merit those efforts.
<br>
<br>
Several times per month I hear or read comments about possible stove
projects that cannot get funding because the "entities with the
money" want some form of "proprietary rights" to protect their
investment because they fear that when the product is so successful
that others will enter the marketplace without any compensation to
the early "investors". BOGUS thinking on their part:<br>
1. Not When successful, but IF successful. A big<b><big><big>
IF.</big></big></b><br>
<br>
2. Some agencies are mandated to help development efforts, but they
can only think about protecting their investment (as if the money
was out of their personal pockets or from their high salaries).
They let the others, the innovators, bear the risks and early
expenses. <br>
<br>
3. They are not interested in the lest with putting some of that
(possible) gain back into the pockets of the people who did the
pioneer work to bring things up to the point of investments by
outsiders.<br>
<br>
4. In the TLUD world, for the beginning 30 years ago, Reed,
Wendelbo, Larson, Miles, English, Anderson, Belonio, Donnelly,
Harris, and on and on and on have ALL clearly shared their
information, so the likelihood of some patent being defensible about
TLUD technology is very very low. <u>Maybe </u>some design
patent could be obtained, but for the thousands of dollars to get a
patent and then defend it in one country and in many countries, the
legal fees investment is unlikely to be recovered.<br>
<br>
But hey, to everyone, if you have the golden key or the magic touch
to solve the world's cookstove problems, you will be a hero and
worth every dollar you can make!!! We do not object if you can be
successful financially. But in the meantime, please continue to
freely share your inspirations and experiences.<br>
<br>
Basically, a specific design is like a religious faith or sect. <br>
<br>
a. It was derived from some previous thinking or writings (so it
must protect its history while claiming to have added something
new). <br>
<br>
b. But it does not tolerate deviation from the faith (or design)
because that would be heresy and lack of respect for the originator
of that sect or design.<br>
<br>
c. Deviates or derivations (or subsequent designs by others) might
not be welcome (especially if there is no "payback" to the parent).<br>
<br>
In our case, the "TLUD faith" is quite accepting of the many
variations (or derivations). Let's keep it that way. We do not
need to be equally excited about every variation. And we are
actively watching and assisting so the there is continual progress
along many fronts.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/11/2015 5:38 PM, Joshua Guinto
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:Dh_zN7hJSS2YWUfsxeAXCw@ismtpd0006p1iad1.sendgrid.net" type="cite">
<div style="padding-top:10px;padding-left:10px;width:680px;">
<div dir="ltr">Dear Art and everyone,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for
the initiative. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That is very true Art.
All my creations come from a hard earned savings which are
supposed to
pay for domestic bills and family expenses. Huge efforts
beginning from
the research, seminars, conversations, exchange, designing,
fabrication,
testing, renovations, and promotions. But development
workers like us do
this in a dual mission of sharing, and sustaining. We can
only share so
much from what we have. And so it really hurts when someone
runs away
with the hard earned efforts and when the sharing stops.
Which is
why i want to be assured that all my work will go to the
rightful people
and not be robbed and claimed by the rich and
powerful.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>One mechanism i propose is to install
a filtering system. That is about knowing who openly shares
and knowing
those who simply extracts and runs. That way we protect the
spirit of
open sharing to the rightful members of this community. Its
is very
difficult to do since this is an open source community and
we would not
know what happens after the conversation. But please allow
me to
"sow the seed" as an
idea. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Talking about business.... my
stove, the PapaBrick Stove is not practical to sell. Not all
the way
from the Philippines. Instead what i am thinking is to sell
the stove as
a Training of Trainers kit or like a factory in a box. It
would be a
small box which contains all the DIY manuals and then the
miniature
stove model from the 3D print out of all the nine (9) brick
pieces. The
3d prints is important as it will enable people who are less
computer
tech savvy to interpret the design. The complete set can be
manufactured
here in the Philippines (or a team anywhere in the world, or
even from
your place Art, if you have a 3d printer) and shipped off to
the
clients. I can send all the details from here and someone
from your end
prints out all the manuals and all the brick pieces and put
them all in
a beautiful ready to go box. I want this box to reach the
far ends of
the world where it is most needed especially those
communities
recovering from conflict or natural disasters.
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The other product could be simply to
sell the construction manual very much like that of the
Richard
Stanley"s Legacy Foundation Grocery on
line. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My best regards to
everyone. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Jed
Guinto</div>
<div>Philippines</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div><b><span style="font-family:garamond,serif">Joshua
B.
Guinto<br>
</span></b><span style="font-family:garamond,serif">Specialist,
Appropriate
Technology<br>
</span></div>
<span style="font-family:garamond,serif">MSc
Management of AgroEcological
Knowledge and Social Change (MAKS)<br>
</span></div>
<span style="font-family:garamond,serif">Wageningen
University, The
Netherlands</span> <span style="font-family:garamond,serif">2006 to
2008</span><b><br>
</b></div>
<div><span style="font-family:garamond,serif">Recipient,
International
Fellowships Programme Award (IFP) 2005<br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:garamond,serif">Ford
Foundation
</span><b><br>
</b></div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2015-09-11 13:10 GMT-07:00 art
donnelly
<span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:biocharstoves-80aeu@wiggiomail.com" target="_blank">biocharstoves-80aeu@wiggiomail.com</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div style="padding-top:10px;padding-left:10px;width:680px">Hi
all,
<br>
How are you? It's hard to accept that it is nearing
the end of
summer here in the northern hemisphere. I love the sun
and our biochar
enhanced garden has been glorious.
<br>
The last couple of weeks has seen some interesting
posts on our
Biochar-Stove project Forum. The posts regarding
Servals' Indiegogo
campaign, give me the opportunity to clarify my
thinking on ways the
public space we are creating together can be used.
<br>
In order to be of utility to people trying to make
projects happen
on the ground, trying to survive while designing and
building stoves,
needing to cover their living expenses while acting as
a teacher and
ambassador for the Biochar Technology Cluster, this
list has to openly
talk about where the money comes from to make this
work possible. We are
going to put an emphasis on the day-to-day, practical,
realities of
initiating and implementing successful projects. So,
we are going to
talk business. Obviously, as a community we need to
watch that all
postings stay relevant and within the bounds of
sharing. I count on you
all to be honest and vocal about postings that you do
not find
appropriate.
<br>
In the best of cases, this type of communication will
lead to us
collaborating to support each other. Here is our 1st
example:
<br>
SeaChar will be providing Servals with "perks" for
their
current Indiegogo campaign. We will be shipping
biochar soaps and masks
to donors in North America. You can see that product
here: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://shop.seachar.org/collections/all" target="_blank">http://shop.seachar.org/collections/all</a>
Mission
related product is one way we are funding our project
work. <br>
In future cases, I hope that this Forum will be a
meeting place for
those producing biochar-stoves and those planning
project supply chains
and in need of well designed technology for their
projects. I also think
many of us may see opportunities in co-marketing our
products and
services
<br>
<br>
So, this "Market-place" like function is one of the
resources the forum could provide to our community.
What do you all
think of this? What other kinds of resource sharing
could we foster
using the forum?
<br>
Cheers!</div>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
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