<div dir="ltr"><img src="http://cdn.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/issues/2008/05/img/china_coal_stoves_large.jpg"><br><div><br></div><div>Hi Paul,</div><div><br></div><div>Did the photo come through? </div><div><br></div><div>The honeycomb coal briquettes can be lit with an electric device that quickly sets fire</div><div>to the many interior vertical tunnels. When lit in this way the gases made below all pass up </div><div>into the burning tunnels in the top most briquette which promotes cleaner combustion.</div><div><br></div><div>When the top briquette is not lit before being placed on top of the lower briquettes there is a lot of smoke.</div><div><br></div><div>Millions of these stoves are in use in China. The government is trying to switch to natural gas especially because</div><div>coal burning produces carcinogens.</div><div><br></div><div>These stoves remind me of TLUDs because they are batch loaded, the fire is burning on top of the vertically loaded fuel, </div><div>and gases pass up into the burning tunnels.</div><div><br></div><div>The primary air enters from below and the secondary air passes up in gaps between the briquettes and the walls of the stove.</div><div>Adding more secondary air helped to more completely burn up the CO.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,<br></div><div><br></div><div>Dean</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Dean Still <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com" target="_blank">deankstill@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi Paul,<div><br></div><div>Here's a Chinese Tom Reed type forced air stove with primary and secondary air.</div><div><br></div><div>Xunda makes great stoves and has been at the GACC forums, etc.</div><div><br></div><div>We have seen many Chinese batch fed natural draft and forced air stoves and I think that Crispin and Ron have gone to stove expos in China?</div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://exportpages.com/en/product/biomass-stove/129608/" target="_blank">https://exportpages.com/en/product/biomass-stove/129608/</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>The TLUD is a great idea and it reinforces how useful it is, if it was made in lots of places.</div><div><br></div><div> The insulated Rocket stove was already in Nepal and Tibet and hayboxes!</div><div><br></div><div> I hope to hear from someone in China about the history of cooking stoves.</div><div><br></div><div>I went to a museum in Ningbo that had a big map on the wall showing the 2,000 year history of stove export by sea from China to India and Africa.</div><div><br></div><div>I wonder what kind of stoves were developed over such a long period of time?</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><br></div><div>Dean</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Paul Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Dean and all, (To post at <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a> , but all replies via the Listservs, please.)<br>
<br>
It is remarkable how the documentation of the development of clean-burning stoves in China is so scarce. If you can influence anyone to actually substantiate what you have written in your email below and put it into English, that would be a great service.<br>
<br>
Instead, the evidence that comes from China today is that the air pollution from the coal burning stoves is horrible and that they are wanting solutions. And I doubt that the principles of TLUD-type combustion are being used with those hundreds of millions of stoves that you mention.<br>
<br>
Crispin reports great success of lower emissions with gasifier-type (whether TLUD or not is not an issue) stoves (for cooking and for heating) burning low-grade coal in Mongolia. That is documented evidence, and the concepts and designs did not come from copying the Chinese coal burning stoves.<br>
<br>
Less than 10 years ago (2007) there was a competition of clean cookstoves in China. Dana Charron and Berkeley folks helped run it. Many candidates. Of the seven or eight finalists, only one (Daxu) was a legitimate TLUD gasifier, and it won first place. So, I see no support for your statement:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
the modern Chinese stove community has specialized in TLUD type natural draft stoves for more than 20 years.<br>
</blockquote>
Dean, you and anyone else are invited to present documentation about stove progress in China or in any country. But simple statements without backup documentation are not sufficient, and should not be coming from a person who is continually invited to represent the informal Stover Community to administrators and sources of funding. Your comments below only contribute to the myths that plague our work and our progress.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD<br>
Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><br>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a><br>
Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a><br>
<br>
On 9/13/2015 12:45 AM, Dean Still wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi Paul and Ron,<br>
<br>
Let's not forget that the modern Chinese stove community has specialized in TLUD type natural draft stoves for more than 20 years. It's just as likely that the stove you ordered was designed in China and is now being sold worldwide. I think it is also sold by SilverFire?<br>
<br>
Hundreds of millions of natural draft coal burning TLUD type stoves are sold in China. Many manufacturers make biomass fueled forced air stoves like the Tom Reed stove but they are larger to match the big woks.<br>
<br>
It would be very interesting to learn about the Chinese history of top feed cylindrical combustion chamber with primary and secondary air stoves. The Chinese batch fed primary/secondary air stoves could be hundreds of years old. I don't know.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Dean<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
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</font></span></blockquote></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div>Dean Still</div><div dir="ltr">Executive Director<div>Aprovecho Research Center</div><div>PO Box 1175</div><div>76132 Blue Mountain School Road</div><div>Cottage Grove, OR 97424</div><div><a href="tel:%28541%29%20767-0287" value="+15417670287" target="_blank">(541) 767-0287</a></div></div></div></div></div>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>Dean Still</div><div dir="ltr">Executive Director<div>Aprovecho Research Center</div><div>PO Box 1175</div><div>76132 Blue Mountain School Road</div><div>Cottage Grove, OR 97424</div><div>(541) 767-0287</div></div></div></div></div>
</div>