<div dir="ltr">Neil:<div><br></div><div>Many of the comments regarding the collapsable gasifier ordered eBay are incorrect. Wildwood stoves did not design or have anything to do with the development of this Chinese gasifier. Wildwood stoves is a reseller of stove products. China did not "rip off" this design as claimed, to the contrary it is in fact a "Chinese" design, as are many efficient TLUD cooking designs available are Chinese (both as a natural draft or fan assisted stove designs). Despite information claimed on the stoves list, TLUDs have been used in China, decades prior to any folks currently contributing information on the stoves list were born.</div><div><br></div><div>The Wildwood gasifier is a portable compact, uninsulated, collapsable gasifier that is produced by numerous factories in numerous Provinces in China for several years, as ours is. This basic stove design was offered to our stove organization by numerous factories in multiple locations in China. This field stove is easily identified by the folding pot supports, and is found with round, square, and various other ventilation hole designs from different factories. The problem with the original design was the combustion chamber floor. It allowed hot embers to fall directly on the through the stove onto the support surface. This was a legitimate safety issue for SilverFire. Many of the current eBay gasifier stove combustion chamber floor designs have primary ventilation holes that are too large and are a significant fire hazard.</div><div><br></div><div><br><img src="cid:ii_iekesih12_14fcda34d6c849d8" width="499" height="283"><br><br></div><div><br></div><div>The original pot supports were also poorly designed. In our opinion, both the folding pot triangle support design model and the Wildwood folding wire stove system have stability and durability issues. We were beat to market by the Wildwood stove offering, due to the time and expense required to create new moulds. These changes improved the combustion chamber floor and eliminated the falling hot embers, as well as collected the spent ash. Wildwood was able to launch the stove to the Western World prior to our launch, due to what we felt were important stove safety and design issues to address. We were able to eliminate the safety design flaws, from the stove design you ordered. The original folding pot supports were also re-designed and we have launched fixed pot support model for greater durability and stability. The original design did not accommodate numerous small trekking cookware well. </div><div><br></div><div>SilverFire has 2 models, a 201 ss model with 3 fixed pot supports and a new 304 brushed ss model with 5 fixed pot supports we will launch this month. There are several other cosmetic and efficiency modifications we have made in the 304 ss stove offering. We pair our stoves with ss optional cookware, ss utensils, and custom fire starter nest inside the combustion chamber when stowed.</div><div><br></div><div><br><img src="cid:ii_iekew9jy4_14fcda5f7078bfb3" width="521" height="403"><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Todd Albi, SilverFire</div><div><a href="http://www.silverfire.us">www.silverfire.us</a><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 12:40 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:neiltm@uwclub.net" target="_blank">neiltm@uwclub.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On 12 Sep 2015 at 12:00, <a href="mailto:stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves-request@lists.bioenergylists.org</a> wrote:<br>
<br>
> These cookstoves are not products with high margins for profit. In<br>
> general, people and companies do NOT copy the products of others unless<br>
> the prospects of good solid profits are proven, and by definition that<br>
> means that the originator has proven profitability. People copy<br>
> success, not effort.<br>
<br>
There is a company in the UK - <a href="http://wildstoves.co.uk" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">wildstoves.co.uk</a> who supply woodburning<br>
stoves of all sorts to the leisure market and who designed their own ND<br>
wood gas camping stove which can also be used as a TLUD very successfully<br>
I have found.<br>
<a href="http://wildstoves.co.uk/wood-cooking-stoves/wood-gas-camping-stoves/wild-w
ood-gas-stove/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wildstoves.co.uk/wood-cooking-stoves/wood-gas-camping-stoves/wild-w<br>
ood-gas-stove/</a><br>
<br>
It has been extensively 'ripped off' by China directly selling through<br>
ebay superficially different stoves, notably changing the round holes to<br>
squares or trapeziums and retaining the original pot support design which<br>
is actually very good I've found. The prices are a fraction of the<br>
wildstoves ones, but the quality of construction is excellent in nicely<br>
finished stainless steel as I have personally discovered.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/Light-Weight-Wood-Gas-Backpacking-Emergency-Surviv
al-Burning-Camping-Stove-Bag-/261752774359?hash=item3cf1ae5ed7" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.ebay.com/itm/Light-Weight-Wood-Gas-Backpacking-Emergency-Surviv<br>
al-Burning-Camping-Stove-Bag-/261752774359?hash=item3cf1ae5ed7</a><br>
<br>
I guess the size of the global leisure market is sufficient to make such<br>
copying worthwhile at least where the design is simple. In fact there<br>
seems very little in the way of such products currently available, and<br>
Tom Reed's original LE fan stove has now ceased production with nothing<br>
really filling that gap. I can imagine the leisure market receptive to<br>
some of the designs discussed here which might help such initiatives<br>
perhaps? I'm receptive to them anyway.<br>
<br>
While on the subject, as a leisure user in the UK and europe, using found<br>
wood in temperate climates often with high moisture content, I have found<br>
the Reed fan stoves fuel fussy, requiring very dry wood to start and run<br>
well especially if turning down. Very nice clean burn when suitably dry<br>
wood is available or can be dried, leaving barely a stain on the bottom<br>
of the pans, whereas the wildstoves ND stove couldn't be more different.<br>
It's difficult to measure the rounded diamond shaped holes for area, but<br>
the primary air appears to be in excess of the secondary air, but the<br>
result is a stove which is made for damp climate success. It accepts<br>
fuel the fan stove would make a smoky mess with, and once going is a fair<br>
old blaze, especially as a TLUD with no possibility of turn down! Great<br>
for stir fry! Feeding it to sustain the burn can be quite an art, but can<br>
achieve a more manageable heat. It of course leaves pans black and sooty<br>
as any open fire would. None the less it is not only visibly cleaner<br>
than an open fire by virtue of the secondary burn, but so much easier to<br>
light and sustain than the FD which surprised me for a ND.<br>
<br>
I also discovered to my delight when in the Pyrenees with it this summer<br>
that the small half litre kelly kettle perches on top of it perfectly<br>
without the pan support, and unlike my previous experiments with making<br>
or utilising a TLUD base for a kelly kettle, it boils water in a<br>
comparable time to its own normal fire base, doing so with no or much<br>
less smoke, thus also civilising it for use in proximity to neighbours.<br>
Under these conditions, as a TLUD finally the chimney pan support makes<br>
sense as the unit does not require refuelling for a sufficiently useful<br>
burn time, and with a strong 'volcano' of flame emerging from the chimney<br>
there is more useful heat. I'm sure the fuel efficiency is less than for<br>
the normal fire base, but this can be reversed if also utilising the<br>
chimney heat. It would be nice to see a comparable stove designed to fit<br>
the larger kelly kettles if only to extend their neighbourliness, and I<br>
am currently on the look out for suitable tincanium.<br>
<br>
I hope some of my observations might be of interest, but recognise I'm<br>
probably a bit marginal on this list!<br>
<br>
Best wishes, Neil Taylor in England.<br>
<br>
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