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Dean,<br>
<br>
The photo did not come through. Please send again.<br>
<br>
I am continually amazed by the Chinese stoves and programs. <br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/13/2015 5:51 PM, Dean Still wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CA+tShZsvs073A5szsxAP1LjY=oUq1ZM7iwphrOwWs9RtOGX0FA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><img moz-do-not-send="true"
src="http://cdn.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/issues/2008/05/img/china_coal_stoves_large.jpg"><br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hi Paul,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Did the photo come through? </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The honeycomb coal briquettes can be lit with an electric
device that quickly sets fire</div>
<div>to the many interior vertical tunnels. When lit in this way
the gases made below all pass up </div>
<div>into the burning tunnels in the top most briquette which
promotes cleaner combustion.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>When the top briquette is not lit before being placed on
top of the lower briquettes there is a lot of smoke.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Millions of these stoves are in use in China. The
government is trying to switch to natural gas especially
because</div>
<div>coal burning produces carcinogens.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>These stoves remind me of TLUDs because they are batch
loaded, the fire is burning on top of the vertically loaded
fuel, </div>
<div>and gases pass up into the burning tunnels.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The primary air enters from below and the secondary air
passes up in gaps between the briquettes and the walls of the
stove.</div>
<div>Adding more secondary air helped to more completely burn up
the CO.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dean</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Dean
Still <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:deankstill@gmail.com" target="_blank">deankstill@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Paul,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Here's a Chinese Tom Reed type forced air stove with
primary and secondary air.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Xunda makes great stoves and has been at the GACC
forums, etc.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We have seen many Chinese batch fed natural draft and
forced air stoves and I think that Crispin and Ron have
gone to stove expos in China?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://exportpages.com/en/product/biomass-stove/129608/"
target="_blank">https://exportpages.com/en/product/biomass-stove/129608/</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The TLUD is a great idea and it reinforces how useful
it is, if it was made in lots of places.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> The insulated Rocket stove was already in Nepal and
Tibet and hayboxes!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> I hope to hear from someone in China about the
history of cooking stoves.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I went to a museum in Ningbo that had a big map on
the wall showing the 2,000 year history of stove export
by sea from China to India and Africa.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I wonder what kind of stoves were developed over such
a long period of time?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dean</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 10:05 AM,
Paul Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Dean
and all, (To post at <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.drtlud.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></a>
, but all replies via the Listservs, please.)<br>
<br>
It is remarkable how the documentation of the
development of clean-burning stoves in China is so
scarce. If you can influence anyone to actually
substantiate what you have written in your email below
and put it into English, that would be a great
service.<br>
<br>
Instead, the evidence that comes from China today is
that the air pollution from the coal burning stoves is
horrible and that they are wanting solutions. And I
doubt that the principles of TLUD-type combustion are
being used with those hundreds of millions of stoves
that you mention.<br>
<br>
Crispin reports great success of lower emissions with
gasifier-type (whether TLUD or not is not an issue)
stoves (for cooking and for heating) burning low-grade
coal in Mongolia. That is documented evidence, and
the concepts and designs did not come from copying the
Chinese coal burning stoves.<br>
<br>
Less than 10 years ago (2007) there was a competition
of clean cookstoves in China. Dana Charron and
Berkeley folks helped run it. Many candidates. Of
the seven or eight finalists, only one (Daxu) was a
legitimate TLUD gasifier, and it won first place.
So, I see no support for your statement:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
the modern Chinese stove community has specialized
in TLUD type natural draft stoves for more than 20
years.<br>
</blockquote>
Dean, you and anyone else are invited to present
documentation about stove progress in China or in any
country. But simple statements without backup
documentation are not sufficient, and should not be
coming from a person who is continually invited to
represent the informal Stover Community to
administrators and sources of funding. Your comments
below only contribute to the myths that plague our
work and our progress.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD<br>
Email: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a><br>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" value="+13094527072"
target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a><br>
Website: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.drtlud.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a><br>
<br>
On 9/13/2015 12:45 AM, Dean Still wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hi Paul and Ron,<br>
<br>
Let's not forget that the modern Chinese stove
community has specialized in TLUD type natural draft
stoves for more than 20 years. It's just as likely
that the stove you ordered was designed in China and
is now being sold worldwide. I think it is also sold
by SilverFire?<br>
<br>
Hundreds of millions of natural draft coal burning
TLUD type stoves are sold in China. Many
manufacturers make biomass fueled forced air stoves
like the Tom Reed stove but they are larger to match
the big woks.<br>
<br>
It would be very interesting to learn about the
Chinese history of top feed cylindrical combustion
chamber with primary and secondary air stoves. The
Chinese batch fed primary/secondary air stoves could
be hundreds of years old. I don't know.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Dean<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
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<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>Dean Still</div>
<div dir="ltr">Executive Director
<div>Aprovecho Research Center</div>
<div>PO Box 1175</div>
<div>76132 Blue Mountain School Road</div>
<div>Cottage Grove, OR 97424</div>
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<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
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-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>Dean Still</div>
<div dir="ltr">Executive Director
<div>Aprovecho Research Center</div>
<div>PO Box 1175</div>
<div>76132 Blue Mountain School Road</div>
<div>Cottage Grove, OR 97424</div>
<div>(541) 767-0287</div>
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