<div dir="ltr">Hi Paul,<div>At the end of our Ontario Stove Camp, the provincial biomass energy engineer who participated spoke up. He said that Mongolian coal stove experience was a good news story for biomass because the challenges are similar. It is a technical success. Crispin deals with the world as it is now. Perhaps most of the human race will hit a wall in the future, but shunning coal in Mongolia now would saying go ahead you folks can hit the wall now.</div><div><br></div><div>I spent Wednesday at the University of British Columbia. My two stops were the Anthropology Museum and the <span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22.399999618530273px">Biomass Research and Demonstration Facility and the Museum of Anthropology</span></div><div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif" size="2"><span style="line-height:22.399999618530273px"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UBC_Biomass_Research_and_Demonstration_Facility">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UBC_Biomass_Research_and_Demonstration_Facility</a></span></font><br></div><div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif" size="2"><span style="line-height:22.399999618530273px"><a href="http://moa.ubc.ca/school-programs/educational-websites/">http://moa.ubc.ca/school-programs/educational-websites/</a></span><br></font></div><div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif" size="2"><span style="line-height:22.399999618530273px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif" size="2"><span style="line-height:22.399999618530273px">It was a study in contrasts. There is a large ornate ceramic tile heating stove from 16th century Europe.The stoves had no doors in the room and were fed through openings in another room by servants. As the rich got poorer the stove doors into the room were added. The tiles images told stories. The older culture of the west coast Salish saw the open fire burning as the soul of their homes where the doorway in, lined with teeth and lips, is a mouth, and the roof rafters and wall posts are the rib cage. Their cooking pots were wooden boxes. The "bent wood" box side were made from a single plank often cut from a living cedar tree without killing the tree. The plank is notched and steamed so only one vertical seam is left to seal.</span></font></div><div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif" size="2"><span style="line-height:22.399999618530273px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif" size="2"><span style="line-height:22.399999618530273px">From there I got a tour of the 35 million dollar wood chip fueled deep bed (5 feet deep) updraft gasifier heating plant. It was supposed to produce a gas that could be run through an engine to produce electricity. The gas would have been a lot like what a tlud produces they planed to clean it.</span></font></div><div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif"><span style="line-height:22.399999618530273px">More than half of the equipment is locked-out because it didn't work. They are still producing 25% of the campus heat requirements. However it is still debated whether biomass plants similar to these are reducing CO2 in the atmosphere or are a net benefit to society. There are IPCC reports that claim that biomass plants can be worse than coal plants. Details matter. It looks like the UBC biomass plant has low emissions. Like Crispin's coal stove, this is a very good start. They have a lot in common technically but I doubt UBC is cleaning west coast air:)</span></font></div><div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif"><span style="line-height:22.399999618530273px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif"><span style="line-height:22.399999618530273px">CPP up here refers to the Canada Pension Plan:)</span></font></div><div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif"><span style="line-height:22.399999618530273px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif"><span style="line-height:22.399999618530273px">Alex</span></font></div><div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif"><span style="line-height:22.399999618530273px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif"><span style="line-height:22.399999618530273px"><br></span></font></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 11:02 PM, Paul Anderson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
Ron,<br>
1. I agree that the Stoves Listserv should not be further
distracted or diverted by the issue of coal as a fuel. We talked
about it. Fair enough. On with the work on biomass stoves.<br>
<br>
2. We need to recognize that more stove efforts are driven by human
health issues than by environmental health issues of atmospheric CO2
and climate change. And others want stoves so that forests are
saved for animal habitat. Some folks do not share the same
enthusiasms. That is okay.<br>
<br>
3. We all will be watching to see how fast China moves from coal to
renewable energy, especially relating to cooking and residential
heating. <br>
<br>
4. How ironic? You mention the important CPP, referring to the
Clean Power Plan. But CPP also stands for Crispin
Pemberton-Pigott. No further comment about that coincidence.<span class=""><br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" target="_blank">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: <a href="tel:%2B1-309-452-7072" value="+13094527072" target="_blank">+1-309-452-7072</a>
Website: <a href="http://www.drtlud.com" target="_blank">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
</span><span class=""><div>On 9/16/2015 2:40 PM, Ronal W. Larson
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Paul and list:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>1.
I mostly agree with everything you say below. But mostly for
reasons of wanting to save our valuable time, I now ask that
this list stop talking about coal stoves. Biomass only stoves
would be in accordance with the way we started up almost 20
years ago (as the first list coordinator, I think I wrote that
sentence - which I gave a few days ago). It is worse than that
we are wasting people’s time, with only one person ever bringing
up coal and coal stove topics. </div>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</span></div>
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