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<DIV>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: NL-BE"
lang=NL-BE><FONT face=Calibri>>Frans,<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: NL-BE"
lang=NL-BE><o:p><FONT face=Calibri> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: NL-BE"
lang=NL-BE><FONT face=Calibri>Dear Kirk<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: NL-BE"
lang=NL-BE><o:p><FONT face=Calibri> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face=Calibri>Something is wrong in your concept op pressure
.<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-themecolor: text1"><FONT
face=Calibri>>This is very possible since I am trying to work things out, but
I am making progress.<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-themecolor: text1"><o:p><FONT
face=Calibri> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face=Calibri>One : you measure pressure- difference in and outside the stove ,an
OPEN STOVE vessel!<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face=Calibri>Only in a closed vessel BOM- combuster you get a real pressure due
solid/gas volume-expansion, versus container volume ;mind 12gram carbon gives
22,4 Liter =44gram CO2 or 22,4 liter CO=28gram !!! <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face=Calibri>Depends the air you give it . Gas from pyrolyse is different .CO
+H2+CO2 +organic gas methanol aceton acetic acid ao
.<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-themecolor: text1"><FONT
face=Calibri>>It is possible for pressure variations to exist in an open
vessel.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Consider an airplane wing,
which is an open vessel and has pressure difference on top and bottom.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>If there are no pressure variations in a
wood stove then what makes the gasses move?<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Some sources of pressure variation in a
ND-TLUD are wood gas emergence from the wood, buoyancy, hot gas expansion from
secondary burning, the cooling of the gasses as they give heat to the pot, and
the Venturi effect from the gasses passing through a constriction. I have
not found any good descriptions of buoyancy as it operates in a ND-TLUD, so I am
writing one.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-themecolor: text1"><o:p><FONT
face=Calibri> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face=Calibri>Then you have GAS expansion to law PV/T=pv/t versus absolute
temperature - 273°C in the calculation<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face=Calibri>In and out the stove you get the ARCHIMES law too ! Compare
floating in water-pressure up ,depends displaced water or air with its density
difference . Air MOL equivalent =27 CO=28 CO2=44
H2=2<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-themecolor: text1"><FONT
face=Calibri>>Displacement works well for static buoyancy, a boat sitting in
the water or the kings crown under water, but the gasses in a wood stove are not
static.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Column height works better
as an indicator of the state of wood stove gasses.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Consider two chimneys that displace the
same amount of atmosphere, one vertical and one horizontal.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The vertical one adds to the draft, the
horizontal one does not.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> Displacement does
not necessarily affect draft.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p><FONT
face=Calibri> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face=Calibri>A high chimney as mine is 8 meter ,it SUCKS till 3 mm water column
PRESSURE-DIFFERENCE as the 10 Kw stove make the noise as a wolf
…..!<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-themecolor: text1"><FONT
face=Calibri>>It sounds like your stove has great draft with that tall
chimney.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It must work well.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-themecolor: text1"><FONT
face=Calibri>>The chimney does not suck to create the pressure drop.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The column of hot, light weight gasses
in the chimney creates less pressure at the bottom than an equal column of the
heavier atmosphere (see attachment).<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>The draft is actually buoyancy, which is a push from the bottom, not a
pull from the top.<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-themecolor: text1"><o:p><FONT
face=Calibri> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face=Calibri>Your idea to measure gas escape surface- pressure must be done
about ,with a cup shaped pressure sensor of 1cm² and 1mm long,, pressed on a
flat peace of gas- steaming wood…of 450 °C.<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face=Calibri>But it is non-sense to try it!<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-themecolor: text1"><FONT
face=Calibri>>I do not need detailed measurements as much as to just watch
how the gasses behave.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>As I
consider the stove and fire, it becomes clear that since the fuel chamber fills
with wood gas, and the atmosphere is pushed out, the wood gas must be boiling
out of the wood at above atmospheric pressure.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Yet at the same time the primary and
secondary air are entering the stove, so the wood gas must be below atmospheric
pressure to allow this air in.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>How
can the wood gas be both above and below atmospheric pressure at the same time?
<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>My thought on the answer to this is
that once the stove heats up, the light weight of the gasses in the upper stove
produces a low pressure area in the lower stove where the wood is (see
attachment).<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The wood is in the low
pressure region, and since the wood gas emerges at slightly above the
surrounding pressure, it is now emerging from the wood at below atmospheric
pressure.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It cannot hold the
atmosphere out.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>This allows the
primary and secondary air to enter.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>All of this can be explained if the wood gas emerges from the wood at
just slightly above the ambient gas pressure surrounding the wood.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Which makes sense because the boiling
wood volatiles are behaving like boiling water behaves.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>At higher altitudes, and lower
atmospheric pressure, the steam boils off at lower temperature and
pressure.<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-themecolor: text1"><o:p><FONT
face=Calibri> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face=Calibri>You need the “FLOW” in a stove as most important related to stove
dimensions .<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face=Calibri>Mind :Flow is related to your unmeasurable pressure difference
.<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face=Calibri>Flow is measured with a PITOT tube of 1-2 mm and 20 cm long
.<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-themecolor: text1"><FONT
face=Calibri>>The flow in a ND-TLUD is very complicated.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It might be a good doctoral thesis topic
for a graduate student.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>There are
numerous flows inside a ND-TLUD.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>There is the primary air flow, the wood gas flow through and above the
char from the pyrolytic front to the secondary, the secondary air flow, the
changing flow from the beginning of the secondary burn to its end (which is
often complicated by flowing through a constriction and possibly hitting and
giving off heat to a pot), the exhaust flow (which cools as it hits the pot, and
may perhaps flow through a chimney), the plume above the stove, loss of energy
if the wood gas cools into smoke, the flow resistance all along the way, and
whatever else I cannot think of right now.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>I don’t want to get into all of that.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I just want to make my design work and
understand something of the principles of why it works.
<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p><FONT
face=Calibri> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face=Calibri>You can make a flow indicator by an extra vessel around the stove
with an unic total air input ,with a square tube input with a balancing hanging
cat-door 1x5 cm ,metallised MILAR=polyester of microns thick.(Or thinnest Alu
foil ) To get minimum air resistance! <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face=Calibri>You measure the movement by an oblique laser rayon .. Movement
multiplied by reflection longer distance ! For a TLUD stove without a
fan..<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-themecolor: text1"><FONT
face=Calibri>>This will give the flow of air into the stove but does not take
into account wood gas emergence and expansion from the secondary burn.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p><FONT
face=Calibri> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face=Calibri>With fan : a 15 cm PC fan you cannot use with a cone 12 to 3 cm !
All FLOW RETURNS due FLOW CONE RESISTANCE !!!<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face=Calibri>You need PRESSURE to OVERCOME the fuel compaction resistance
!<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face=Calibri>An inversely used vacuum cleaner motor at 1/10 of its voltage and
power is best !! Regulate FLOW, is airspeed to the best BURNSPEED but …..!
(15-30 volt for 230V AC motor )<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face=Calibri>Give the gasses “REACTION TIME “ !!!<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face=Calibri>And mind pyrolyse /combustion needs 1versus 9 air quantity
!<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-themecolor: text1"><FONT
face=Calibri>>This is all good to know.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>I do take into account flow resistance from fuel and constrictions.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I provide reaction time by spinning the
flame with a stationary fan blade.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>This makes the flame rise at an angle instead of straight up, giving it
more time to burn.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-themecolor: text1"><o:p><FONT
face=Calibri> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-themecolor: text1"><FONT
face=Calibri>>Thank you for your challenging response.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It keeps me
thinking.<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-themecolor: text1"><o:p><FONT
face=Calibri> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-themecolor: text1"><FONT
face=Calibri>>Kirk<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><o:p><FONT
face=Calibri> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><FONT
face=Calibri><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Succes
!<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">>Indeed……watch
out propane.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P style="LINE-HEIGHT: normal; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: #1f497d; mso-ascii-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-hansi-font-family: Calibri; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT
face=Calibri>P.F.<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"
dir=ltr>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=peetersfrans@telenet.be href="mailto:peetersfrans@telenet.be">Frans
Peeters</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">'Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, October 10, 2015 5:07
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Stoves] Strata combustor
general principles</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Dear
Kirk<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US> Something is wrong in your
concept op pressure .<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US> One : you measure pressure- difference in
and outside the stove ,an OPEN STOVE
vessel!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US>Only in a closed vessel BOM- combuster you get a real
pressure due solid/gas volume-expansion, versus container volume ;mind 12gram
carbon gives 22,4 Liter =44gram CO2 or 22,4 liter CO=28gram !!!
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US>Depends the air you give it . Gas from pyrolyse is different .CO
+H2+CO2 +organic gas methanol aceton acetic acid ao
.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US> Then you have GAS expansion to law
PV/T=pv/t versus absolute temperature - 273°C in the
calculation<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US>In and out the stove you get the ARCHIMES law too ! Compare
floating in water-pressure up ,depends displaced water or air with its density
difference . Air MOL equivalent =27 CO=28
CO2=44 H2=2<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US> A high chimney as mine is 8 meter
,it SUCKS till 3 mm water column PRESSURE-DIFFERENCE as the 10 Kw
stove make the noise as a wolf …..!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US>Your idea to measure gas escape surface- pressure must be done
about ,with a cup shaped pressure sensor of 1cm² and 1mm long,, pressed on a
flat peace of gas- steaming wood…of 450 °C.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US>But it is non-sense to try it!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US>You need the “FLOW” in a stove as most important related to stove
dimensions .<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US>Mind :Flow is related to your unmeasurable pressure difference
.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US>Flow is measured with a PITOT tube of 1-2 mm and 20 cm long
.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US>You can make a flow indicator by an extra vessel around the stove
with an unic total air input ,with a square tube input with a
balancing hanging cat-door 1x5 cm ,metallised MILAR=polyester of microns
thick.(Or thinnest Alu foil ) To get minimum air resistance!
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US>You measure the movement by an oblique laser rayon ..
Movement multiplied by reflection longer distance !
For a TLUD stove without a fan..<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US> With fan : a
15 cm PC fan you cannot use with a cone 12 to 3 cm ! All FLOW
RETURNS due FLOW CONE RESISTANCE !!!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US>You need PRESSURE to OVERCOME the fuel compaction resistance
!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US>An inversely used vacuum cleaner motor at 1/10 of its voltage
and power is best !! Regulate FLOW, is airspeed to the
best BURNSPEED but …..! (15-30 volt for 230V AC motor
)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US>Give the gasses “REACTION TIME “ !!!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US>And mind pyrolyse /combustion needs 1versus 9 air quantity
!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US>Succes !<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US>P.F.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang=NL>Van:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=NL> Stoves
[mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <B>Namens
</B>kgharris<BR><B>Verzonden:</B> vrijdag 18 september 2015
4:21<BR><BR><B>Onderwerp:</B> Re: [Stoves] Strata combustor general
principles<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Frans,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">It is exciting to
have you bring up these concerns. There is a question I have
had for a long time, and your contribution reminds me about it. It
has to do with the pressures within the stove. Perhaps you and the
list can help answer this question.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">First to address
your concerns. There is a sweet spot as to how much blockage the stove
can manage. It lies between to much, which blocks the flow
and creates the attenuation you describe, and to little so that the
combustor doesn't work. I did not know that the venturi created a back
pressure, I assumed that the back pressure was created by the obstruction of
the tubes and fan. I found the sweet spot by emperical
experimentation. I now know that this balance includes back pressure
from the Venturi, if I understand you correctly. So the equation
now includes the resistance of three things: tubes, stationary fan
blade, and Venturi back pressure. I included your concern into the
design without my even knowing it. Its all a balance. Thank
you for your input, it is very good to help me understand more
about the stove. The combustor has been tested at Aprovecho and does
work, so the idea is good.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The question I have
had for so long is this: When the wood gas emerges from the wood what is
its pressure and how long does it take for the wood gas to drop to near
atmospheric pressure? When I measured the pressure in a stove with a
manometer which measured down to 1/100th of an inch of water column,
it measured at atmospheric pressure throughout the stove. The water
column did not move at all (I understand from Crispin that I must measure down
to 1/1000th of an inch to find pressure differences). Since
the water column did not move when I measured the pressure at the pyrolytic
front, that implies that the wood gas either reaches atmospheric pressure
quickly or comes out of the wood at near atmospheric pressure. Whatever
the case, the wood gas comes out of the wood with enough force to push
the atmosphere, which weighs twice as much as the wood gas, out of the
stove. That is a considerable amount of force. I wonder how much
pressure pyrolysis could build up in a confined container? A lot I
would guess, enough to cause an explosion. Is the pressure of the
emerging wood gas dependent on the pressure of the gas it emerges
into?</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Respectfully,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Kirk</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; MARGIN: 5pt 0cm 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0cm">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">----- Original
Message ----- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=peetersfrans@telenet.be href="mailto:peetersfrans@telenet.be">Frans
Peeters</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">'Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves'</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Thursday,
September 17, 2015 3:06 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Re: [Stoves]
Strata combustor general principles<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Dear,Kirk<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US> You don’t see :it is not a
closed compressed system !<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US>But any reaction vessel (V1 ) with a venturi
attenuation at the output gives a back reaction in all
directions ,so flow attenuation under the grate air input
.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US>By over total power the air input BECOMES SMOKE OUTPUT TOO .! So
invers to your idea ;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US>A V1 rocket has an input COMPRESSOR powered by the
traveling speed plus a constant fuel input so a nice VENTURY output
.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US>1and 2 you don’t have it in a stove of half info
.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US> Yours<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US>Rocket scientist<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"
lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 0cm; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"
lang=EN-US>Van:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-US>
Stoves [</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=NL><A
href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org"><SPAN
lang=EN-US>mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</SPAN></A></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" lang=EN-US>]
<B>Namens </B>kgharris<BR><B>Verzonden:</B> donderdag 17 september 2015
4:58<BR><B>Aan:</B> Discussion of biomass cooking
stoves<BR><B>Onderwerp:</B> Re: [Stoves] Strata combustor general
principles<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN lang=EN-US><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Dr. Boll and
Crispin,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Thank you for
your well considered responses. I especially like the idea of
balancing the reactor fuel chamber volumn with the combustor size. I
will keep this in mind as I progress, and seek that balance.
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I don't quite
understand Crispins flame tube. The stove appears to be
loaded with charcoal, so there should not be any smoke. If the clay is
insulating clay than the tube would provide a hot environment for the CO to
burn, if there is a source of secondary air. If the
stove burns wood, by what principles does the
tube work? Is air injected inside the tube? This would make
use of the Venturi effect like Roberto's stove. The flame gasses
accellerating into the tube would drop in pressure and the pressure
difference would help the atmosphere push secondary air into the flame
to equalize the pressure, providing good mixing. This seems to me like
it might work well if that is how it works. Is there something else
that I don't see?</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Kirk
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; MARGIN: 5pt 0cm 5pt 3.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 0cm">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">----- Original
Message ----- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4" class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=boll.bn@t-online.de href="mailto:boll.bn@t-online.de">Boll, Martin
Dr.</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> <A
title=stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org
href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</A>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Wednesday,
September 16, 2015 6:35 AM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Re: [Stoves]
Strata combustor general principles<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Kirk, <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>first of all, your stoves and thoughts about TLUD's are
very interesting. And in my opinion<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> the venturi-concept, you are talking about, -how
ever managed- will be generally the next important step for better
burning; - and for less blacked pots!!! <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>A presumption I made a year or two
ago: <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>The (nominal-) power rate of a good working stove has a
more or less narrow relation to the grate-surface, and/or the
burning-chamber-volume.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> I calculated the given numbers of some different
commercial stoves. My calculations confirmed my
guess.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>I dont remember the numbers, but it is easy to
calculate the numbers out of available commercial
data.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Additional I remind to Crispin's postings, some time
ago:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>He reported, that he made the burning-chamber of some
coal stoves in Ulanbaator smaller, by just filling some space of the
burning-chamber-space with bricks. And some surface of the grate. In
combination with special incending-procedure, that gave better burning;
even by transforming the may of stoves there, there was an enormous
reduction (more than 90%) of air-pollution. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>So I suspect, if you would use the right-balanced
amount of burning-chamber-volume, you could get a step forward. The
volume within the venturi-riser-burner-tube should be included in the
calculation; but in the tube there will be, -hopefully- a burning some
similar to a LPG or NG flame, which will afford less
volume. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>You could take the power-rate which you achieve with
low emission, for extrapolating the stove dimensions for your desired 5 kW
output.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Regards<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Martin<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=MsoNormal align=center>
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
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<P><SPAN lang=EN-US>No virus found in this message.<BR>Checked by AVG -
</SPAN><A href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</A><BR>Version: 2015.0.6140
/ Virus Database: 4419/10657 - Release Date:
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<P align=left color="#000000" avgcert??>No virus found in this
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