<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>So if Ive read you both correctly, i make up my instructional manual and sell one , then proceed to expose the idea globally . One can then patent or in this case copywrite the manual but would it not, in parallel fashion, be an 'invalid copyright' meaning that they could not sue you. I see the winning part as being able to continue to distribute the manuals and the market protection part as in the author's provision of personal support to the buyer. Since the product is (hopefully) likely to be adapted to local circumstance across national boundaries, it will likely move beyond anyone's prior art. I am therefore not sure if one can infringe on another's prior art (where does another's prior originate anyway?). Thats a moot point in itself because in this case, the art we are speaking of is bound up more in the service of co developing a newer locally adapted version of the product, than the product per se. Maybe we need to hire a team of lawyers to define that for us -- then again, maybe not eh ?</div><div id="AppleMailSignature">Richard</div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Nov 21, 2015, at 13:49, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div>
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Briefly, only in some countries do you have to explore prior art. That may be a surprise to Americans. I have patents and have never referred to prior art. </div>
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To make an invention public, publish it, make one and sell it commercially, at least one. Publicise the fact you did that. </div>
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It doesn't prevent someone filing a patent on something that is in the public domain. But it is not enforceable. There are lots of invalid patents. This may seem odd but a patent is not really considered unless it has been challenged and upheld by a court,
especially a USA court, if we are talking about international recognition. </div>
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If someone patents your invention and you already sold one or more on a commercial basis (fee for product) it is in the public domain. If they sue you for making it yourself and they have a patent, it is not enforceable against you or anyone else who knows
it is in the public domain. </div>
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A patent is a license to sue. A valid patent is a license to win. </div>
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Regards </div>
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Crispin </div>
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<div>Dear Richard et al;<br>
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I agree with what you say, and I have been working on the premise that publicizing an idea, such as on this Stoves list, is a good way to make an idea common to all.
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The Stoves list has another advantage over patents, in that people who submit an idea here have tried it, not the least because they don't want foolish if they are wrong. By contrast, for American patents, all you need to patent is an idea; you don't need
to have actually done anything, nor made anything. You can make "claims" about your invention that can be just wishful thinking.<br>
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Patents or the Global Commons may have a couple of advantages over the "Stoves" list.<br>
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1) publicizing may not be sufficient protection in some countries. [That is major concern for the country I am working in].<br>
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2) patents supply a formal history of ideas; they are a type of publishing; they are a searchable database, whereas lists like "Stoves" may not be as long-lasting.<br>
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I am not sure that we need lawyers to write patents. (1) The biggest hurdle to writing a patent is the patent search of the "prior art." I have done a fair bit of that for TLUDs, and it could be possible to maintain a public bibliography of patents. That
would save people a lot of time, and would be an interesting source of information in its own right. Some of us have websites which could hold the resources. (2) I think we can help each other here on this list by telling each other when we see a new patent;
and (3) asking for volunteers to review our patents. <br>
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There is a cost to taking out a patent, but I have heard rumors of a Global commons of ideas that is free.<br>
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Personally, I would rather just post ideas to "Stoves", but I think I am going to have to help a friend with his patent.<br>
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Just an interesting side-note on American patents, and the lack of a requirement for evidence that your idea works: A couple of years ago, I read a patent taken out by an American university for adding "a microbe to biochar" ... ANY MICROBE to ANY BIOCHAR!!
There is an idea for you!!! I haven't followed up on this, but I suspect that they were trying to protect the idea for public use, before a major corporation took out a similar patent for profit. Either that, our they were looking for a new source of funding
for the university football team.<br>
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Cheers,<br>
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Julien<br clear="all">
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<div dir="ltr">Julien Winter<br>
Cobourg, ON, CANADA<br>
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