<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Dear Ron and Stovers,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">My interest is controlling the fuel. This done by 1) collecting fuel like that being used in real World and 2) normalizing the energy value going to the secondary by using pyrolyze gases + (CO -> CO2) values. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I cannot determine any energy efficiency values because this is just one side of the equation. And you do not supply me with the values of this one side as I need them. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The value I am proposing is only useful for energy traveling to another location - secondary. Making char does not require energy, in fact it waste energy. And (bio-)char does not have useful energy, in fact the energy is locked up and cannot be used by soil microbes for 1000 years. So what I propose is not applicatable to what you are talking about and not intended to be so. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Your (bio-)char (not charcoal used for cooking) is not ‘energy’ locked up but should be referred to as carbon. Following the total carbon in the feedstock; separating it into available carbon and non-available carbon (TGA) for optimum then determining the amount actually made from your char-maker is more to what you want. And that being your efficiency values. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">But in a World that is connecting fuel energy producing non-available carbon (biochar) and that biochar is made >90% carbon (DAF) I guess it would be ok to assign non-available carbon with an energy value and use in calculations. Lets see if we can do that:</div><div class="">1) we need total energy of the biomass fuel (dry weight)</div><div class="">2) using TGA we need energy of the total char (DAF) </div><div class="">We assume the char (DAF) is 90+% carbon and assign that an energy value.</div><div class="">3) We determine energy of the pyrolysis gases (total - char)</div><div class=""> 4) So thats the total maximum amount of energy assigned to biochar that should be produced in your devise. </div><div class="">5) You run YOUR device and produce biochar. Ash a subsample to determine the weight of biochar (DAF). Assign an energy value to it based on biochar (DAF) being >90% carbon. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Now you can calculate the efficiency of your device at producing biochar.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Note: If you have wood (dry) and you use the pyrolysis gases for something, you use the CO->CO2 gases for something and use the (Bio-)char left over for something then 100% of the energy in the wood is always used. You are left with efficiency determinations found (compared to that determined by TGA) for making biochar. But if making biochar is found less than expected so to be not very efficient then the non-biochar gases (CO -> CO2) went to join the pyrolysis gases and it still always = all adds up to 100%. You can’t go wrong!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Where you can go wrong is if after making the biochar you test it to see if it still has hydrogen and lots of oxygen left indicating not a good biochar and it is then wasted. This is bad.</div><div class="">But if still good for char cooking (due to some volatiles) you are now back to 100% efficiency. You can’t go wrong!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">100% efficiency every time!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Love it!</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Frank </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 25, 2015, at 8:52 AM, Ronal W. Larson <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" class="">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Paul, Brian, and lists:</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>1. Thanks to both Paul and Brian (their messages below). Brian’s is a nice comparison to CHP. The efficiency for CHP is always taken as the sum of the separate power and heat. Using the waste heat is clearly to everyone’s advantage (save companies selling less fuel). Biochar literature has tacked on a B to discuss combined heat, power and biochar as CHPB. There is a considerable difference from CHP in that the B = biochar competes with the H and P. More B means less of both H and P. But the terms are all (necessarily) measured in energy terms. What other units could be used?</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>The same seems true for what Brian is calling CHC. No reason not to use this, but an alternative is obviously CHB. If one was producing char only for further combustion, then CHC would certainly be preferred. The stoves list will probably use both CHC and CHB interchangeably. Biochar (three sites receiving this) and climate (on which this first started) lists will presumably mostly prefer CHB.</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>I cannot accept Frank Shield’s arguments below. He is trying to force a false preference between char-making or not - when such a choice is not needed. Both are wanted by many if not most stove users. I again ask Frank to express an opinion on which efficiency and inefficiency (presumably always inversely related exactly) is best. His reply to me was not used by Brian - so readers will have to go back to a message close to mine on the 22nd.</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>I similarly reject the arguments by Kevin Chisholm against the use of both the third and fourth efficiencies. Like Frank, he offers no answers to my two basic ending questions, and (I find) no valid reasons for those two rejections.</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>I have added Prof. Jain again - as it was his comment (below) that I quoted in moving this climate thread to the stoves and biochar arenas:</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><blockquote cite="mid:ED8DBA5CC1AC4DB7A7732C71CC0650C1@BriansLaptop" type="cite" class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div id="ygrp-mlmsg" class="" style="font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; position: relative;"><div id="ygrp-msg" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; z-index: 1;"><div id="ygrp-text" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: Georgia;"><div dir="ltr" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: small;"><div id="ygrp-text" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: Georgia;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px; line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px; line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px; line-height: 1.22em;"><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><blockquote cite="mid:7EFA90FF-F5E7-428B-A026-F86ECB6D5529@comcast.net" type="cite" class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px; line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px; line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: 18px; font-family: helvetica;"><div id="ygrp-mlmsg" class="" style="font-size: 13px; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; line-height: 1.22em;"><div id="ygrp-msg" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div id="ygrp-text" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: georgia;"><blockquote cite="mid:IbIfPJ1QR0CvVCT6izM16A@ismtpd0005p1iad1.sendgrid.net" type="cite" class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px; line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; width: 680px;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><i class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: x-large; color: rgb(46, 46, 46);">t<u class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">he energy stored in the </b></u></span><u class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: x-large; color: rgb(46, 46, 46);"><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">charcoal</b></u><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: x-large; color: rgb(46, 46, 46);"> </span><u class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: x-large; color: rgb(46, 46, 46);"><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">should be considered </b></u></i><i class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><u class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: x-large; color: rgb(46, 46, 46);"><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">as a useful energy. </b></u></i></div><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>I again urge readers new to this thread to read his lengthy scholarly (free) article relating climate issues to stoves in numerous ways.</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>To all - I hope we can hear more on especially the inefficiency computations; forget efficiencies. Also on what is the physics or chemistry which causes char-making stoves to be more efficient? Is the fuel composition of either/both H2 and O2 important? Another possibility is that it is where the flame appears. Burning char in a TLUD is obviously inefficient because the main flame and energy release is as far from the cook pot as possible - below the char, not above it.</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">To Paul - I hope this is what you wanted.</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Ron</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 25, 2015, at 6:52 AM, Paul Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu" class="">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>> wrote:</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;">Stovers,</span><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;">The comment below from Brian to one Listserv merits being sent to the Stoves Listserv and Biocharstoves Listserv. Brian's comments make a lot of sense. Let's discuss further and see if some "implementation" can result. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;">I hope that Ron will filter and coordinate any such discussions because there are numerous listservs to which the messages need to be circulated at least occasionally. There should be assistance from the rest of us, especially if implementation is to occur.</span><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;">Paul</span><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><pre class="moz-signature" cols="72" style="font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com/">www.drtlud.com</a></pre><div class="moz-cite-prefix" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">On 11/24/2015 8:54 PM, 'Brian Dougherty'<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[biochar] wrote:<br class=""></div><blockquote cite="mid:ED8DBA5CC1AC4DB7A7732C71CC0650C1@BriansLaptop" type="cite" class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div id="ygrp-mlmsg" class="" style="font-size: 13px; font-family: Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; position: relative;"><div id="ygrp-msg" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; z-index: 1;"><div id="ygrp-text" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: Georgia;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; margin: 0px 0px 1em;"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div dir="ltr" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Ron,</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">I don’t see a problem with reporting the higher efficiency values as long as it’s made clear what is included in that number. As an example, combined heat and power (CHP) plants typically report high efficiencies because they are factoring in the energy from the heat plus the energy from the electricity, but the name implies they are capturing both. A char making stove that is also heating water is essentially a miniature CHP plant if you think of the char as the “power’' output, but it would need to be labeled as such. It’s a matter of semantics, but if a unit is marketed as a char maker or a stove then the higher efficiency numbers might be misleading. If it’s marketed as or intended to be a combined heat and char maker (CHC stove?) then the higher number makes sense.</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Brian<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;"><div class="" style="line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245);"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" title="biochar@yahoogroups.com" href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com</a></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, November 24, 2015 5:38 AM</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Discussion of biomass</a></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" title="sureshjiitd@gmail.com" href="mailto:sureshjiitd@gmail.com" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">S. Jain (Env. Engg.)</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" title="biocharstoves-7xpll@wiggiomail.com" href="mailto:biocharstoves-7xpll@wiggiomail.com" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Entire Group</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" title="biochar@yahoogroups.com" href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Biochar</a></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Stoves] [biochar] [biochar-stoves] A review of chronological development in cookstove assessment methods: Challenges and way forward</div></div></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span><div id="ygrp-text" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: Georgia;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; margin: 0px 0px 1em;"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Frank et al</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="line-height: 1.22em; white-space: pre;"></span>Those of us working on char-making stoves (a category bigger than TLUDs ) don’t have the “<i class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">don’t know what to do with” problem.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></i>Even better is that they seem cleaner and are apt to save time and money (maybe make money). The issue is reporting - if you feel such a stove (stove not char-maker) has merit. What is your answer to my two questions?</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Ron</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px; line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">On Nov 23, 2015, at 12:36 AM, Frank Shields <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">franke@cruzio.com</a>> wrote:</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Dear Ron,<div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">If your task is to make char your calculations is dry weight of fuel IN and weight of char (DAF) OUT. Boiling water is just something to do so you can have a cup of tea while you wait.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">If your task is boiling water and you are left with char you have a byproduct to add to your garden.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">If you want both I suggest you place an importance on each (percentage of importance) for the span of a year or season. Then with each run you keep track of the char produced and water boiled and try to achieve your percentage ratio. At the end of the year you may need to just boil off some water to get more char or have left over char you don’t know what to do with.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Regards</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Frank</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Frank Shields</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px; line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">On Nov 22, 2015, at 9:36 PM, Ronal W. Larson <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" style="line-height: 1.22em;">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>> wrote:</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Lloyd et al: Adding “stoves - as that is where we have had a similar dialog in the past</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="line-height: 1.22em; white-space: pre;"></span>I promised an example. Use energy of wood and charcoal as measured to be 18 and 30 MJ/kg - both possible.)</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="line-height: 1.22em; white-space: pre;"></span>Assume 1 kg of wood into the stove - or 18 MJ. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="line-height: 1.22em; white-space: pre;"></span>Assume water boiling away calculates to 6 MJ; Effic1 = 6/18 = 33% (Some say stop here; this is a typical number for many stoves including TLUDs)</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="line-height: 1.22em; white-space: pre;"></span>Assume (to get easy numbers) 26.7% (a little high but a possible number) by weight char production - gives .267* 30 = 8 MJ in the char. Effic2 = 8/18 = .444 = 44%, <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="line-height: 1.22em; white-space: pre;"></span>Using the pyrolysis gases in the denominator - Effic 3 = 6/(18-8) = 6/10 = 60% (This use of the char energy in the denominator is the most common way of handling char- added (60-33 =) 27% to the reported value of the stove - )</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="line-height: 1.22em; white-space: pre;"></span>But I think it more proper to add the first two efficiencies: Effic4 = Effic1+ Effic 2 = .333+.444 = .777 (17.7% bigger than the 60% value - and I think also an honest way to look at what is going on. Last I saw, EPA did not add these together, but they did report Effic 1 and Effic 2. Sales people for biochar and TLUDs are apt to add them of course. We obviously want both numbers to be as high as possible.</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="line-height: 1.22em; white-space: pre;"></span></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="line-height: 1.22em; white-space: pre;"></span>The losses are 18-6-8 = 4 MJ or 4/18= 22.2% (mostly hot gases). This is what we should be concentrating on - not 100-60 = 40%. In inefficiency terms, I claim the losses we want to reduce are nowhere near 40% - if you want both char and water boiled away. 40% is the portion of energy in the pyrolysis gases that we failed to capture. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="line-height: 1.22em; white-space: pre;"></span>If we burnt the wood (no resultant char) rather than pyrolyze it, we might expect to have a 60% efficient stove - but no-one measures any wood stove that high. Why not? I don’t have a good answer, but suspect it might relate to how hydrogen fits in. That is - with little hydrogen in the char, the hot gases are more hydrogen rich with a pyrolysis stove. Better heat transfer with more hydrogen? A hotter flame? Or is the effect due to oxygen - which also is a lower percentage in char than in wood? Or both?</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="line-height: 1.22em; white-space: pre;"></span>Comments appreciated when we are striving to make char in a stove:</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="line-height: 1.22em; white-space: pre;"></span>Q1: are the losses 22%, 40%, or 67%?</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="line-height: 1.22em; white-space: pre;"></span> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Q2: Is the efficiency 78%, 60%, or 33%?</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="line-height: 1.22em; white-space: pre;"></span></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Ron</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">On Nov 22, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Lloyd Helferty <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:lhelferty@sympatico.ca" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lhelferty@sympatico.ca" style="line-height: 1.22em;">lhelferty@sympatico.ca</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px; line-height: 1.22em;"><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Thanks, Ron.<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>I know nothing about the Jetter/EPA total efficiency calculation(s) that "use the char’s energy value".<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Could you elaborate?<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Is the Jetter/EPA total efficiency calculation your preferred methodology as a<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">next step</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>to the "WBT"?<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">(Yes, I am quite out of touch with the latest in "Stove testing" methodologies. What "efficiency" methodology does the GACC currently endorse when testing stoves that produce biochar? Is it still an open question?)<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Regards,<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><pre class="moz-signature" cols="72" style="line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 11px; font-family: monospace;"> Lloyd Helferty, Engineering Technologist
Principal, Biochar Consulting (Canada)
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.biochar-consulting.ca/" style="line-height: 1.22em;">www.biochar-consulting.ca</a>
Earth Stewardship consultant, Passive Remediation Systems Ltd. (PRSI)
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Promotions Manager, Climate Smart Agriculture Youth Network (CSAYN)
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48 Suncrest Blvd, Thornhill, ON, Canada
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Co-manager, Sustainable Agriculture Group
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Steering Committee coordinator
Canadian Biochar Initiative (CBI)
Community Sustainability (CoSWoG), A working group of Science for Peace
was: <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.scienceforpeace.ca/currents/" style="line-height: 1.22em;">http://www.scienceforpeace.ca/currents/</a>
President, Co-founder & CBI Liaison, Biochar-Ontario
Member of the Don Watershed Regeneration Council (DWRC)
Manager, Biochar Offsets Group:
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Advisory Committee Member, IBI
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"Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not."
— Dr. Seuss (The Lorax)</pre><div class="moz-cite-prefix" style="line-height: 1.22em;">On 2015-11-22 3:13 PM, Ronal W. Larson wrote:<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"></div><blockquote cite="mid:7EFA90FF-F5E7-428B-A026-F86ECB6D5529@comcast.net" type="cite" class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px; line-height: 1.22em;">Lloyd etal<div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="line-height: 1.22em; white-space: pre;"></span>I am imagining a charcoal-making stove owner who has 2 clients to whom she sells charcoal. One client (A) burns the char; the other (B) uses it as biochar. How can one say the stove has two different efficiencies?</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="line-height: 1.22em; white-space: pre;"></span>But another argument is that if all the produced char is used by C as biochar - it must be that the char’s soil value exceeded the energy value. So perhaps the efficiency value for client C should be even better than for case A. This soil use for the char is where I think we are heading.</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="line-height: 1.22em; white-space: pre;"></span>In sum, I see no reason to do other than use the char’s energy value when calculating a total efficiency - as is being done by Jetter/EPA/</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Ron</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">On Nov 22, 2015, at 7:48 AM, Lloyd Helferty [biochar] <<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" style="line-height: 1.22em;"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" style="line-height: 1.22em;">biochar@yahoogroups.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px; line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: 18px; font-family: helvetica; font-variant: normal; white-space: normal; text-transform: none; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-indent: 0px;"><div id="ygrp-mlmsg" class="" style="font-size: 13px; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; line-height: 1.22em;"><div id="ygrp-msg" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div id="ygrp-text" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: georgia;"><p class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; margin: 0px 0px 1em;">Ron,<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>In reading that quoted/highlighted paragraph, my expectation is that the term, "<i class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><font size="3" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; color: rgb(46, 46, 46); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">utilizing<span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span></span></font></i><font size="3" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; color: rgb(46, 46, 46); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">the<span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span></span><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; color: rgb(46, 46, 46);"><u class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">charcoal</u></b></font>" (..."should be considered as a useful energy") is<span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span><i class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">probably</i><span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span>meant to assume that the leftover/residual charcoal would subsequently be utilized as a<span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">fuel</b>, and probably not as<b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">biochar</b>. If the resulting charcoal is used in a non-energy application (i.e. as biochar) then one does not normally talk about or refer to, "the<u class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><i class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">energy</i></u><span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span>stored in the charcoal" as being "useful" anymore, if one considers the classical [non-regenerative / linear] energy models. (Of course if one understands the use of biochar from a holistic** perspective, it can make sense to use biochar in a non-fuel application if that application results in a boost to the actual [biomass] fuel -- and food --<span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span><i class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">production capabilities</i><span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span>of the soil from which the original stove 'fuel' was derived... but of course those are more complex calculations that must also consider time and a number of other variables which are not normally taken into consideration.)<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">**Note: If considered in this holistic perspective / context, the use of<span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span><i class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">soil-health enhancing</i><span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span>materials like biochar will very likely eventually be a<i class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">prerequisite</i><span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span>of the very definition of "sustainable" biofuels / biomaterials.<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">CC: Biochar group<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Regards,<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"></p><pre class="moz-signature" cols="72" style="line-height: normal; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 15px; font-family: monospace;"> Lloyd Helferty</pre><div class="moz-cite-prefix" style="line-height: 1.22em;">On 2015-11-22 3:58 AM, Ron Larson wrote:<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"></div><blockquote cite="mid:IbIfPJ1QR0CvVCT6izM16A@ismtpd0005p1iad1.sendgrid.net" type="cite" class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px; line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; width: 680px;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Professor Jain</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="line-height: 1.22em; white-space: pre;"></span>1. Thank you for a tremendously useful document. Especially that you (Elsevier?, TERI?) have made it available on a non-fee basis (for a<span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><u class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">SHORT</u><span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span>time).</b></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"></b></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="line-height: 1.22em; white-space: pre; font-weight: bold;"></span>2. I am a little surprised (and delighted) that I received this on the climate change list. I am alerting four other lists who will also find this most useful.</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="line-height: 1.22em; white-space: pre;"></span>3. To me, interested in both climate change (through biochar - not mentioned) and stoves, the most important sentence in your exceedingly thorough (161 cites) is this partial paragraph in Section 2.3.1 (emphases added):</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="3" color="#2e2e2e" face="Arial,
Helvetica,
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sans-serif" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> <i class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span> </i></span><i class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">“</span><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">The energy expenditure in the form of fuel for boiling and evaporating water is calculated by standardizing the amount of raw fuel with fuel moisture content, ambient temperature,<span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span></span></i></font><i class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: 16px; color: rgb(46, 46, 46);"><u class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">charcoal</u></b><font size="3" color="#2e2e2e" face="Arial,
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sans-serif" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span>formed fuel and calorific value of fuel and<span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span></span></font><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; color: rgb(46, 46, 46);"><u class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">charcoal</u></b><font size="3" color="#2e2e2e" face="Arial,
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sans-serif" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">. This is called the ‘equivalent dry wood consumed’.<span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span></span></font><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; color: rgb(46, 46, 46);">Charcoal</b><span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span><font size="3" color="#2e2e2e" face="Arial,
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sans-serif" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">utilization after the cooking process in real households has not been validated in any of the studies. If the<span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span></span></font><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: 16px; color: rgb(46, 46, 46);"><u class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">charcoal</u></b><font size="3" color="#2e2e2e" face="Arial,
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sans-serif" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span>disposed by targeted population then the fuel consumption can be corrected. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font></i></span><i class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><font size="3" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; color: rgb(46, 46, 46);"> </span><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; color: rgb(46, 46, 46); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">If a certain community has a habit of utilizing the<span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span></span><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; color: rgb(46, 46, 46);"><u class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">charcoal</u></b><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; color: rgb(46, 46, 46); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span>then<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font><font color="#2e2e2e" face="Arial, Helvetica,
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sans-serif" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><font size="3" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">…</font></span><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: 14px;">..</span></font></i></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><font color="#2e2e2e" face="Arial,
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sans-serif" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: 14px;"><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"></span></font></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><i class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: x-large; color: rgb(46, 46, 46); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">t<u class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">he energy stored in the<span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span></b></u></span><u class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: x-large; color: rgb(46, 46, 46);"><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">charcoal</b></u><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: x-large; color: rgb(46, 46, 46); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="Apple-converted-space" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span></span><u class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: x-large; color: rgb(46, 46, 46);"><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">should be considered as a useful energy</b></u><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font size="5" color="#2e2e2e" face="Arial,
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sans-serif" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">.</span><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">”</span><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </span></font></span></i></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><i class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"></i></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="line-height: 1.22em; white-space: pre;"></span>4. As I know you know, there is more than one way to report the impact of charcoal production in stove comparisons. Examples coming.</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="line-height: 1.22em; white-space: pre;"></span>5. I could not find an email address for Ms. (Dr?) Pooja Arora. I intend to look up other papers she and you have published. Please congratulate her as well.</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Again, thanks for a very useful stove assessment document. I am aware of nothing like it.</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Ron (first/past “stove” and “biochar” lists coordinator)</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">On Nov 21, 2015, at 10:09 PM, S. Jain (Env. Engg.) wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><blockquote type="cite" class="" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 4px; line-height: 1.22em;"><div dir="ltr" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: 14px; font-family: calibri, sans-serif;"><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; margin: 0px 0px 0pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: 10.5pt;">Dear Colleagues,</span></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: 10.5pt;"></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; margin: 0px 0px 0pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: 10.5pt;">We are sharing with you an article on<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><i class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: 10.5pt; color: rgb(23, 55, 94);">Chronological development in cookstove assessment methods: Challenges and way forward</span></i></b><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: 10.5pt;">. We hope to receive your inputs and comments on the same.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; margin-bottom: 0pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: 12pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34);"></span><br class="webkit-block-placeholder" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; margin: 0px 0px 0pt;"><b class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Abstract</b></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; margin: 0px 0px 0pt;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: 10.5pt;">This review intended to collect and collate the information related to cookstove testing methodologies applied in lab and field conditions and their output in the form of energy and emission parameters. The important information related to progression of cookstove testing techniques was segregated in order to understand the relationships in different indicators of cookstove performance and to understand the sources of uncertainty in emission data. The major research issue that has been dwelt upon in the recent literature is the establishment of relationship between lab and field results of cookstove performance. It is observed that controlled cooking test and kitchen performance test are the two field based tests which provide a better picture of a particular cookstove performance as it involves the user perspective. Misrepresentation of actual cookstove performance based on laboratory based testing puts the present standard protocols in question. Solutions have been put forward by some research studies; however a validation is needed through multiple scientific investigations conducted at various temporal and spatial scales. It has been observed that cookstove testing methodologies are still in their nascent stage compared to the research that has already been conducted for other sources where biomass combustion emissions have studied thoroughly. Still the shift in focus of upcoming research studies towards field based integrated cookstove testing methodologies has the potential to drive future cookstove research in the new direction.</span></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><br class="webkit-block-placeholder" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0px 0px 1em; line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: 10.5pt;">We are providing you with the following personal article link, which will provide free access to your article, and is valid for 50 days, until January 10, 2016</span><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: 10pt;"><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"></span><span class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: 10pt; outline-style: none;"><a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://authors.elsevier.com/a/1S4Na4s9HvhN9u" moz="true" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: verdana;"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://authors.elsevier.com/a/1S4Na4s9HvhN9u" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: Verdana;">http://authors.elsevier.com/a/1S4Na4s9HvhN9u</a></span></p><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"></div></blockquote></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Stoves mailing list<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" style="line-height: 1.22em;">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"></div></blockquote></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"> </div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">Stoves mailing list<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" style="line-height: 1.22em;">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" style="line-height: 1.22em;">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"></div></blockquote></div><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"></div></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; color: rgb(255, 255, 255); height: 0px;">__._,_.___</div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; clear: both;"></div><div id="fromDMARC" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; margin-top: 10px;"><hr class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; height: 2px; border-width: 0px; color: rgb(227, 227, 227); background-color: rgb(227, 227, 227);">Posted by: "Brian Dougherty"<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:Brian-Dougherty@comcast.net" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><Brian-Dougherty@comcast.net></a><hr class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; height: 2px; border-width: 0px; color: rgb(227, 227, 227); background-color: rgb(227, 227, 227);"></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; clear: both;"></div><table cellspacing="4px" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: inherit; margin-top: 10px; margin-bottom: 10px; color: rgb(45, 80, 253);"><tbody class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><tr class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"><td class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; font-weight: bold; padding: 7px 5px 5px;"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/biochar/conversations/messages/18765;_ylc=X3oDMTJyYTBmdWtxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRtc2dJZAMxODc2NQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0NDg0MjAwOTA-?act=reply&messageNum=18765" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(45, 80, 253);">Reply via web post</a></td><td class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">•</td><td class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-size: 12px; font-family: arial; padding: 7px 5px 5px;"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Brian-Dougherty@comcast.net?subject=Re%3A%20%5BStoves%5D%20%5Bbiochar%5D%20%5Bbiochar-stoves%5D%20A%20review%20of%20chronological%20development%20in%20cookstove%20assessment%20methods%3A%20Challenges%20and%20way%20forward" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; text-decoration: none; color: rgb(45, 80, 253);">Reply to sender<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></a></td><td class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;">•</td><td class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; 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text-decoration: none;">VISIT YOUR GROUP</a></span><ul class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; list-style-type: none; margin: 0px; padding: 0px; display: inline;"></ul></div><div id="ft" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; font-family: Arial; font-size: 11px; margin-top: 5px; padding: 0px 2px 0px 0px; clear: both;"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo;_ylc=X3oDMTJlMHNxZG5sBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNnZnAEc3RpbWUDMTQ0ODQyMDA5MA--" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; float: left;"><img moz-do-not-send="true" src="http://l.yimg.com/ru/static/images/yg/img/email/new_logo/logo-groups-137x15.png" alt="Yahoo! Groups" height="15" width="137" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; border: 0px;"></a><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; color: rgb(116, 117, 117); float: right;">•<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; text-decoration: none;">Privacy</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>•<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:biochar-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; text-decoration: none;">Unsubscribe</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>•<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; text-decoration: none;">Terms of Use</a></div></div><br class="" style="line-height: 1.22em;"></div><div id="ygrp-sponsor" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; width: 160px; float: right; clear: none; margin: 0px 0px 25px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><div id="ygrp-reco" class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; margin-bottom: 20px; padding: 0px;"></div></div><div class="" style="line-height: 1.22em; clear: both; color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-size: 1px;">.</div></div><img moz-do-not-send="true" src="http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=22438052/grpspId=1707418612/msgId=18765/stime=1448420090" height="1" width="1" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><img moz-do-not-send="true" src="http://y.analytics.yahoo.com/fpc.pl?ywarid=515FB27823A7407E&a=10001310322279&js=no&resp=img" height="1" width="1" class=""><div class="" style="color: rgb(255, 255, 255); height: 0px;">__,_._,___</div></blockquote><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;">_______________________________________________</span><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;">Stoves mailing list</span><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address</span><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page</span><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><span class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !important;">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:</span><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"></div></blockquote></div><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Stoves mailing list</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">to Send a Message to the list, use the email address</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>