<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Art and ccs</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span> Another message from you a little later said you would be creating (I think) a place to archive this series on how to report on TLUDs in a consistent and helpful way. Thanks for that.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> See inserts below.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 25, 2015, at 12:18 PM, Art Donnelly <<a href="mailto:art.donnelly@seachar.org" class="">art.donnelly@seachar.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div class="">Hi Ron and all,<br class=""></div>I am sure that there are others of you that share experience with biochar producing cook-stoves that parallel mine: I have ran TLUD cook-stoves thousands of times over the past 6 years. I also built and experimented on "Anila" style retort stoves and Rocket Stove-Gasifier hybrids.I want both an easy hands free way to cook and I want to harvest high quality charcoal at the end of my cooking process. I quickly settled on TLUDs as the most viable and consumer of the various approaches.</div></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">RWL1: I have never built an Anila-type (which can produce char) - because of an inability to control power levels. Was that what bothered you? Can you expand on what you mean by a Rocket-Gasifier. Doesn’t seem likely to produce char very effectively. Not batch I presume.</b></div><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">Although I own a Paul Olivier, stainless steel rice-husk gasifier stove, it is using bamboo and wood as input materials that constitutes the vast majority of my experience.<br class=""></div></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL2: You have shown me this one from Viet Nam - which is very handsome - and uses a small fan, so there is power level control. How much control have you found with your use of bamboo and wood? TDR of five possible? I believe this has 150 mm ID (approx 6”). Can you report the stove height and max and min operating times you have been able to achieve</b><b class="">?</b></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div>TLUD stoves if run correctly give the user very consistent experience and performance across the following metrics, I will use the stove I am currently prototyping (it has an 7" (17.78cm)dia fuel chamber as an example:<br class=""><ul class=""><li class="">With a batch load of bamboo or wood of approximately 3lbs (1.360kg) the stove will burn for approximately one hour and 15 minutes</li><li class="">If quenched at the point complete carbonization has occurred and the pyrolysis front has collapsed, (which indicates all the volatiles that can be released at the stoves peak temperature have been combusted ) your dry weight yield in charcoal will consistently be near 20% of the dry weight of input material.<br class=""></li><li class="">The stove will average a temperature, in it's pyrolysis front, of between 550C-750C <br class=""></li></ul></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL3: This must be for min and max fan settings - or does this stove have manual power level control?. Good data. Can you report the duration that goes with each of these temperatures?</b><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><ul class=""><li class="">It will currently boil 5-liters of water (no lid) in approximately 25-30 minutes <br class=""></li><li class="">It will then hold the water at a high simmer for 45-50 minutes</li><li class="">As the maximum temperature of carbonization is the same as that of the Estufa Finca cook-stove that we have been using for the past 5+ years, we expect that we will see a similar result when we have samples of this biochar laboratory characterized for estimated available surface area. IE; 450-500m2 per gram<br class=""></li></ul><p class="">In the lab using the WBT our "Low Power Specific Consumption" score looks terrible. But I do not believe that means that these are an inefficient or wasteful <span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>stove. </p></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL4: Can you expand on why “terrible”?</b><br class=""><div><br class=""></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><p class="">Not only do I hope that new methdologies can be developed that do not penalize "batch loaded " stoves, I also hope we can build up a robust data base of Controlled Cooking Tests, which will provide a more relevant assessment of the TLUDs fuel efficiency.</p><div class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">RWL5: I am perfectly satisfied with what Jim Jetter and EPA are already reporting. I cannot understand anyone ever saying that char produced should neither be measured nor reported.</b></div><div><b class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Controlled cooking tests need to report time spent in front of the stove - and someone should report on tests that limit the amount of time that can be spent there.</b></div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><p class="">RE: the value of the charcoal : sure you can burn it. I've barbecued on my stove's charcoal many times. But , as you have produced a product which can be sold at a higher price for use in soil amendments, water filters, personal care products and medicine, we found we could charge more for it and that there is a real market for this product. <br class=""></p></div></div></blockquote><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">RWL6: Most important of all (hard for some to believe) is to place the ground for climate reasons (the topic of Prof. Jain’s paper).</b><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><p class="">These are cook-stoves. But I have now sold over 500 of the classic Estufa Finca design to US gardeners, who are mostly interested in making biochar with as little pollution and waste as possible.<br class=""></p></div></div></blockquote><div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><b class="">[RWL7: Glad you used the term “biochar” here (= soil amendment). I don’t think we should call char used for many purposes as biochar.</b></div><div><b class=""><br class=""></b></div><div><b class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Art: Thanks for all you are doing with biochar and stoves. Especially moderating this new web site.</b></div><div><b class=""><br class=""></b></div><div><b class="">Ron</b></div><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="">Art Donnelly<br class="">President <a href="http://seachar.org" class="">SeaChar.Org</a><br class="">US Director, The Farm Stove Project<br class=""><a href="http://shop.seachar.org/collections/all" target="_blank" class="">http://shop.seachar.org/collections/all</a><br class=""><a href="http://email2.globalgiving.org/wf/click?c=1Oy%2FmZbgIyjS5WI580KXwShvfKBcF2eaJvtN7Pi6p7Jl%2FiR4938EMMCBwY%2FuYALeA%2BQYUWN4RpvnxBsBC7e2%2BGIHcONTozBmvsUU5LTL%2FTNk4Q3vxE%2BKdXTV2cxIsFplSPh%2F9nMG3bQMQf4bz9ZK9SHMy46Z8OPLAtMAnPG9SKkPuLCWvofBTLC%2BImqax%2BZTkkF2RvDri5UdgH19NHjHOBj5WMUrS4L62Z2xxUJbBsJdDUOfeifheNFXH546Xm0yul4P2stm%2FTUOJxYnI0nFjXEaYfzxDSc%2FwgqVkR1t0USDHk30%2Fgt9UpDpyzLj37HWtnNQ0q8Jh1gZCkB4Y1Fgbg394gYFkyNqFN4MchxO2Js%3D&rp=wrhiOr2wAxUyDMDlMSqbOkKa0FpPoiCSHffb%2ByfHGClRxIFjEIrUDwAF%2BFD%2BpAPuvam9BDwvSMcadhFv7aFwKoyAXYrFk00%2B92xPIeMHXaTDJ3x0VIj6ZYwjm1win65o&up=YDTqBOjidbCUo%2Far1oAtZjp5ji73zPEvmoO14mevuXzIDUdb6Ac9W13SPOXmzL5NflZkH0HxLp0v4dT9UwEHDV0wSZ1qusv09bIKkUliWs4%3D&u=LHuflw_1TAib_lgCu2JvQw%2Fh0" target="_blank" class=""></a><br class="">"<a href="http://seachar.org" class="">SeaChar.Org</a>...positive tools for carbon negative living"<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 12:58 AM, Ronal W. Larson <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net" target="_blank" class="">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><div class="">Professor Jain</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>1. Thank you for a tremendously useful document. Especially that you (Elsevier?, TERI?) have made it available on a non-fee basis (for a <b class=""><u class="">SHORT</u> time).</b></div><div class=""><b class=""><br class=""></b></div><div class=""><span style="font-weight:bold;white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>2. I am a little surprised (and delighted) that I received this on the climate change list. I am alerting four other lists who will also find this most useful.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>3. To me, interested in both climate change (through biochar - not mentioned) and stoves, the most important sentence in your exceedingly thorough (161 cites) is this partial paragraph in Section 2.3.1 (emphases added):</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class=""><font color="#2e2e2e" face="Arial, Helvetica, Lucida Sans Unicode, Microsoft Sans Serif, Segoe UI Symbol, STIXGeneral, Cambria Math, Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif" size="3" class=""><span style="line-height:15.7867px;word-spacing:-1.24453px" class=""> <i class=""> </i></span><i class=""><span style="line-height:15px;word-spacing:-1px" class="">“</span><span style="line-height:15.7867px;word-spacing:-1.24453px" class="">The energy expenditure in the form of fuel for boiling and evaporating water is calculated by standardizing the amount of raw fuel with fuel moisture content, ambient temperature, </span></i></font><i class=""><b style="color:rgb(46,46,46);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,'Lucida Sans Unicode','Microsoft Sans Serif','Segoe UI Symbol',STIXGeneral,'Cambria Math','Arial Unicode MS',sans-serif;font-size:16px;line-height:15.7867px;word-spacing:-1.24453px" class=""><u class="">charcoal</u></b><font color="#2e2e2e" face="Arial, Helvetica, Lucida Sans Unicode, Microsoft Sans Serif, Segoe UI Symbol, STIXGeneral, Cambria Math, Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif" size="3" class=""><span style="line-height:15.7867px;word-spacing:-1.24453px" class=""> formed fuel and calorific value of fuel and </span></font><b style="color:rgb(46,46,46);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,'Lucida Sans Unicode','Microsoft Sans Serif','Segoe UI Symbol',STIXGeneral,'Cambria Math','Arial Unicode MS',sans-serif;font-size:16px;line-height:15.7867px;word-spacing:-1.24453px" class=""><u class="">charcoal</u></b><font color="#2e2e2e" face="Arial, Helvetica, Lucida Sans Unicode, Microsoft Sans Serif, Segoe UI Symbol, STIXGeneral, Cambria Math, Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif" size="3" class=""><span style="line-height:15.7867px;word-spacing:-1.24453px" class="">. This is called the ‘equivalent dry wood consumed’. </span></font><b style="color:rgb(46,46,46);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,'Lucida Sans Unicode','Microsoft Sans Serif','Segoe UI Symbol',STIXGeneral,'Cambria Math','Arial Unicode MS',sans-serif;font-size:16px;line-height:15.7867px;word-spacing:-1.24453px" class="">Charcoal</b> <font color="#2e2e2e" face="Arial, Helvetica, Lucida Sans Unicode, Microsoft Sans Serif, Segoe UI Symbol, STIXGeneral, Cambria Math, Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif" size="3" class=""><span style="line-height:15.7867px;word-spacing:-1.24453px" class="">utilization after the cooking process in real households has not been validated in any of the studies. If the </span></font><b style="color:rgb(46,46,46);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,'Lucida Sans Unicode','Microsoft Sans Serif','Segoe UI Symbol',STIXGeneral,'Cambria Math','Arial Unicode MS',sans-serif;font-size:16px;line-height:15.7867px;word-spacing:-1.24453px" class=""><u class="">charcoal</u></b><font color="#2e2e2e" face="Arial, Helvetica, Lucida Sans Unicode, Microsoft Sans Serif, Segoe UI Symbol, STIXGeneral, Cambria Math, Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif" size="3" class=""><span style="line-height:15.7867px;word-spacing:-1.24453px" class=""> disposed by targeted population then the fuel consumption can be corrected. </span></font></i></span><i class=""><font size="3" class=""><span style="color:rgb(46,46,46);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,'Lucida Sans Unicode','Microsoft Sans Serif','Segoe UI Symbol',STIXGeneral,'Cambria Math','Arial Unicode MS',sans-serif;line-height:15.7867px;word-spacing:-1.24453px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class=""> </span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(46,46,46);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,'Lucida Sans Unicode','Microsoft Sans Serif','Segoe UI Symbol',STIXGeneral,'Cambria Math','Arial Unicode MS',sans-serif;line-height:15.7867px;word-spacing:-1.24453px" class="">If a certain community has a habit of utilizing the </span><b style="color:rgb(46,46,46);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,'Lucida Sans Unicode','Microsoft Sans Serif','Segoe UI Symbol',STIXGeneral,'Cambria Math','Arial Unicode MS',sans-serif;line-height:15.7867px;word-spacing:-1.24453px" class=""><u class="">charcoal</u></b><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(46,46,46);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,'Lucida Sans Unicode','Microsoft Sans Serif','Segoe UI Symbol',STIXGeneral,'Cambria Math','Arial Unicode MS',sans-serif;line-height:15.7867px;word-spacing:-1.24453px" class=""> then </span></font><font color="#2e2e2e" face="Arial, Helvetica, Lucida Sans Unicode, Microsoft Sans Serif, Segoe UI Symbol, STIXGeneral, Cambria Math, Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif" class=""><span style="line-height:15px;word-spacing:-1px" class=""><font size="3" class="">…</font></span><span style="font-size:14px;line-height:15px;word-spacing:-1px" class="">..</span></font></i></div><div class=""><font color="#2e2e2e" face="Arial, Helvetica, Lucida Sans Unicode, Microsoft Sans Serif, Segoe UI Symbol, STIXGeneral, Cambria Math, Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif" class=""><span style="font-size:14px;line-height:15px;word-spacing:-1px" class=""><br class=""></span></font></div><div class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size:x-large;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(46,46,46);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,'Lucida Sans Unicode','Microsoft Sans Serif','Segoe UI Symbol',STIXGeneral,'Cambria Math','Arial Unicode MS',sans-serif;line-height:15.7867px;word-spacing:-1.24453px" class="">t<u class=""><b class="">he energy stored in the </b></u></span><u style="font-size:x-large;color:rgb(46,46,46);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,'Lucida Sans Unicode','Microsoft Sans Serif','Segoe UI Symbol',STIXGeneral,'Cambria Math','Arial Unicode MS',sans-serif;line-height:15.7867px;word-spacing:-1.24453px" class=""><b class="">charcoal</b></u><span style="font-size:x-large;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(46,46,46);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,'Lucida Sans Unicode','Microsoft Sans Serif','Segoe UI Symbol',STIXGeneral,'Cambria Math','Arial Unicode MS',sans-serif;line-height:15.7867px;word-spacing:-1.24453px" class=""> </span><u style="font-size:x-large;color:rgb(46,46,46);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,'Lucida Sans Unicode','Microsoft Sans Serif','Segoe UI Symbol',STIXGeneral,'Cambria Math','Arial Unicode MS',sans-serif;line-height:15.7867px;word-spacing:-1.24453px" class=""><b class="">should be considered as a useful energy</b></u><span style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" class=""><font color="#2e2e2e" face="Arial, Helvetica, Lucida Sans Unicode, Microsoft Sans Serif, Segoe UI Symbol, STIXGeneral, Cambria Math, Arial Unicode MS, sans-serif" size="5" class=""><span style="line-height:15.7867px;word-spacing:-1.24453px" class="">.</span><span style="line-height:15px;word-spacing:-1px" class="">”</span><span style="line-height:15.7867px;word-spacing:-1.24453px" class=""> </span></font></span></i></div><div class=""><i class=""><br class=""></i></div><div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>4. As I know you know, there is more than one way to report the impact of charcoal production in stove comparisons. Examples coming.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span>5. I could not find an email address for Ms. (Dr?) Pooja Arora. I intend to look up other papers she and you have published. Please congratulate her as well.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Again, thanks for a very useful stove assessment document. I am aware of nothing like it.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ron (first/past “stove” and “biochar” lists coordinator)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><br class=""><div class=""><div class="">On Nov 21, 2015, at 10:09 PM, S. Jain (Env. Engg.) <<a href="mailto:sureshjiitd@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">sureshjiitd@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt" class="">Dear Colleagues,</span></p><div style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt" class=""><span style="font-size:10.5pt" class=""> </span><br class=""></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt" class="">We are sharing with you an article
on </span><b class=""><i class=""><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:rgb(23,55,94)" class="">Chronological development in cookstove assessment methods: Challenges
and way forward</span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt" class="">. We hope
to receive your inputs and comments on the same. </span></p><div style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt" class=""><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)" class=""> </span><br class=""></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b class="">Abstract</b></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:10.5pt" class="">This review intended to collect and
collate the information related to cookstove testing methodologies applied in
lab and field conditions and their output in the form of energy and emission
parameters. The important information related to progression of cookstove
testing techniques was segregated in order to understand the relationships in
different indicators of cookstove performance and to understand the sources of
uncertainty in emission data. The major research issue that has been dwelt upon
in the recent literature is the establishment of relationship between lab and
field results of cookstove performance. It is observed that controlled cooking
test and kitchen performance test are the two field based tests which provide a
better picture of a particular cookstove performance as it involves the user
perspective. Misrepresentation of actual cookstove performance based on
laboratory based testing puts the present standard protocols in question.
Solutions have been put forward by some research studies; however a validation
is needed through multiple scientific investigations conducted at various
temporal and spatial scales. It has been observed that cookstove testing
methodologies are still in their nascent stage compared to the research that
has already been conducted for other sources where biomass combustion emissions
have studied thoroughly. Still the shift in focus of upcoming research studies
towards field based integrated cookstove testing methodologies has the
potential to drive future cookstove research in the new direction.</span></p><div class=""> <br class=""></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;line-height:115%" class="">We are
providing you with the following personal article link, which will provide free
access to your article, and is valid for 50 days, until January 10, 2016</span><br class="">
<span style="font-size:10pt;line-height:115%;font-family:'Segoe UI',sans-serif" class=""><br class="">
</span><span style="outline:none;font-size:10pt;line-height:115%;font-family:'Segoe UI',sans-serif;color:rgb(25,106,212);background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial" class=""><a href="http://authors.elsevier.com/a/1S4Na4s9HvhN9u" style="outline:none" target="_blank" class="">http://authors.elsevier.com/a/1S4Na4s9HvhN9u</a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><br class=""></p><p class="MsoNormal">Best regards,</p></div><div class="">Suresh Jain, Ph.D.,<br class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Professor & Head,<br class="">Department of Natural Resources <br class="">TERI University, New Delhi - 110 070 / India<br class=""><a href="https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=_jfHgNcAAAAJ&hl=en" target="_blank" class="">https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=_jfHgNcAAAAJ&hl=en</a><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div>
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