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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Hi Ron<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I would comment as follows:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>1: You are certainly free to accept or reject my views on Efficiency. Any definition of “Efficiency” that is clear, factual, helpful, and meaningful is acceptable to me. Definitions that are tricky, deceptive, misleading and self-serving will not come into general use and acceptance. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>2: I would agree with the quote from Dr. Jain’s work:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#2E2E2E'>t<b><u>he energy stored in the charcoal</u></b> <b><u>should be considered as a useful energy. <o:p></o:p></u></b></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>However I would disagree strongly if he said:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><i><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#2E2E2E'>t<b><u>he energy stored in biochar</u></b> <b><u>should be considered as a useful energy. <o:p></o:p></u></b></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Inherently, if charcoal is utilized as energy, it is consumed in the “energy conversion process” and is unavailable for use as biochar. Conversion of charcoal to energy destroys its potential for use as biochar.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>It is inherently incorrect to calculate an “Energy Efficiency” for a char making stove by giving “energy credit to the biochar”, when by definition, biochar does not have an “energy end use”. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Kevin<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> biochar@yahoogroups.com [mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 25, 2015 12:53 PM<br><b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org>; brian-dougherty@comcast.net; Paul Anderson <psanders@ilstu.edu><br><b>Cc:</b> Biochar <biochar@yahoogroups.com>; biochar-stoves - Specific Listserv <biocharstoves-7y82a@wiggiomail.com>; S. Jain <sureshjiitd@gmail.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] [biochar] [biochar-stoves] A review of chronological development in cookstove assessment methods: Challenges and way forward<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div id=ygrp-mlmsg><div id=ygrp-msg><div id=ygrp-text><div><p class=MsoNormal>Paul, Brian, and lists:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>1. Thanks to both Paul and Brian (their messages below). Brian’s is a nice comparison to CHP. The efficiency for CHP is always taken as the sum of the separate power and heat. Using the waste heat is clearly to everyone’s advantage (save companies selling less fuel). Biochar literature has tacked on a B to discuss combined heat, power and biochar as CHPB. There is a considerable difference from CHP in that the B = biochar competes with the H and P. More B means less of both H and P. But the terms are all (necessarily) measured in energy terms. What other units could be used?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>The same seems true for what Brian is calling CHC. No reason not to use this, but an alternative is obviously CHB. If one was producing char only for further combustion, then CHC would certainly be preferred. The stoves list will probably use both CHC and CHB interchangeably. Biochar (three sites receiving this) and climate (on which this first started) lists will presumably mostly prefer CHB.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>I cannot accept Frank Shield’s arguments below. He is trying to force a false preference between char-making or not - when such a choice is not needed. Both are wanted by many if not most stove users. I again ask Frank to express an opinion on which efficiency and inefficiency (presumably always inversely related exactly) is best. His reply to me was not used by Brian - so readers will have to go back to a message close to mine on the 22nd.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>I similarly reject the arguments by Kevin Chisholm against the use of both the third and fourth efficiencies. Like Frank, he offers no answers to my two basic ending questions, and (I find) no valid reasons for those two rejections.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>I have added Prof. Jain again - as it was his comment (below) that I quoted in moving this climate thread to the stoves and biochar arenas:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div id=ygrp-mlmsg><div id=ygrp-msg><div id=ygrp-text><div><div><div><div id=ygrp-text><div><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div id=ygrp-mlmsg><div id=ygrp-msg><div id=ygrp-text><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><i><span style='font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#2E2E2E'>t<b><u>he energy stored in the charcoal</u></b> <b><u>should be considered as a useful energy. </u></b></span></i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>I again urge readers new to this thread to read his lengthy scholarly (free) article relating climate issues to stoves in numerous ways.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>To all - I hope we can hear more on especially the inefficiency computations; forget efficiencies. Also on what is the physics or chemistry which causes char-making stoves to be more efficient? Is the fuel composition of either/both H2 and O2 important? Another possibility is that it is where the flame appears. Burning char in a TLUD is obviously inefficient because the main flame and energy release is as far from the cook pot as possible - below the char, not above it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>To Paul - I hope this is what you wanted.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Ron<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Nov 25, 2015, at 6:52 AM, Paul Anderson <<a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Stovers,<br><br>The comment below from Brian to one Listserv merits being sent to the Stoves Listserv and Biocharstoves Listserv. Brian's comments make a lot of sense. Let's discuss further and see if some "implementation" can result. <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><br>I hope that Ron will filter and coordinate any such discussions because there are numerous listservs to which the messages need to be circulated at least occasionally. There should be assistance from the rest of us, especially if implementation is to occur.<br><br>Paul<br style='text-align:start'><br></span><o:p></o:p></p><pre style='background:white'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Email: </span><a href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu"><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>psanders@ilstu.edu</span></a><span style='font-size:13.5pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre style='background:white'><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>Website: </span><a href="http://www.drtlud.com/"><span style='font-size:13.5pt'>www.drtlud.com</span></a><span style='font-size:13.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>On 11/24/2015 8:54 PM, 'Brian Dougherty'<span class=apple-converted-space> </span>[biochar] wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;text-align:start'><div id=ygrp-mlmsg><div id=ygrp-msg><div id=ygrp-text><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Ron,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>I don’t see a problem with reporting the higher efficiency values as long as it’s made clear what is included in that number. As an example, combined heat and power (CHP) plants typically report high efficiencies because they are factoring in the energy from the heat plus the energy from the electricity, but the name implies they are capturing both. A char making stove that is also heating water is essentially a miniature CHP plant if you think of the char as the “power’' output, but it would need to be labeled as such. It’s a matter of semantics, but if a unit is marketed as a char maker or a stove then the higher efficiency numbers might be misleading. If it’s marketed as or intended to be a combined heat and char maker (CHC stove?) then the higher number makes sense.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Brian<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></span><a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" title="biochar@yahoogroups.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Sent:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Tuesday, November 24, 2015 5:38 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>To:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" title="stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Discussion of biomass</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Cc:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></span><a href="mailto:sureshjiitd@gmail.com" title="sureshjiitd@gmail.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>S. Jain (Env. Engg.)</span></a><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>;<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><a href="mailto:biocharstoves-7xpll@wiggiomail.com" title="biocharstoves-7xpll@wiggiomail.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Entire Group</span></a><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>;<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com" title="biochar@yahoogroups.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Biochar</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Subject:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>Re: [Stoves] [biochar] [biochar-stoves] A review of chronological development in cookstove assessment methods: Challenges and way forward<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div id=ygrp-text><div style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Frank et al<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Those of us working on char-making stoves (a category bigger than TLUDs ) don’t have the “<i>don’t know what to do with” problem.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></i>Even better is that they seem cleaner and are apt to save time and money (maybe make money). The issue is reporting - if you feel such a stove (stove not char-maker) has merit. What is your answer to my two questions?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Ron<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>On Nov 23, 2015, at 12:36 AM, Frank Shields <</span><a href="mailto:franke@cruzio.com"><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>franke@cruzio.com</span></a><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Dear Ron,<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>If your task is to make char your calculations is dry weight of fuel IN and weight of char (DAF) OUT. Boiling water is just something to do so you can have a cup of tea while you wait.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>If your task is boiling water and you are left with char you have a byproduct to add to your garden.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>If you want both I suggest you place an importance on each (percentage of importance) for the span of a year or season. Then with each run you keep track of the char produced and water boiled and try to achieve your percentage ratio. At the end of the year you may need to just boil off some water to get more char or have left over char you don’t know what to do with.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Frank<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Frank Shields<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>On Nov 22, 2015, at 9:36 PM, Ronal W. Larson <</span><a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net"><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>rongretlarson@comcast.net</span></a><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Lloyd et al: Adding “stoves - as that is where we have had a similar dialog in the past<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>I promised an example. Use energy of wood and charcoal as measured to be 18 and 30 MJ/kg - both possible.)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Assume 1 kg of wood into the stove - or 18 MJ. <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Assume water boiling away calculates to 6 MJ; Effic1 = 6/18 = 33% (Some say stop here; this is a typical number for many stoves including TLUDs)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Assume (to get easy numbers) 26.7% (a little high but a possible number) by weight char production - gives .267* 30 = 8 MJ in the char. Effic2 = 8/18 = .444 = 44%, <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Using the pyrolysis gases in the denominator - Effic 3 = 6/(18-8) = 6/10 = 60% (This use of the char energy in the denominator is the most common way of handling char- added (60-33 =) 27% to the reported value of the stove - )<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>But I think it more proper to add the first two efficiencies: Effic4 = Effic1+ Effic 2 = .333+.444 = .777 (17.7% bigger than the 60% value - and I think also an honest way to look at what is going on. Last I saw, EPA did not add these together, but they did report Effic 1 and Effic 2. Sales people for biochar and TLUDs are apt to add them of course. We obviously want both numbers to be as high as possible.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>The losses are 18-6-8 = 4 MJ or 4/18= 22.2% (mostly hot gases). This is what we should be concentrating on - not 100-60 = 40%. In inefficiency terms, I claim the losses we want to reduce are nowhere near 40% - if you want both char and water boiled away. 40% is the portion of energy in the pyrolysis gases that we failed to capture. <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>If we burnt the wood (no resultant char) rather than pyrolyze it, we might expect to have a 60% efficient stove - but no-one measures any wood stove that high. Why not? I don’t have a good answer, but suspect it might relate to how hydrogen fits in. That is - with little hydrogen in the char, the hot gases are more hydrogen rich with a pyrolysis stove. Better heat transfer with more hydrogen? A hotter flame? Or is the effect due to oxygen - which also is a lower percentage in char than in wood? Or both?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Comments appreciated when we are striving to make char in a stove:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Q1: are the losses 22%, 40%, or 67%?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Q2: Is the efficiency 78%, 60%, or 33%?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Ron<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>On Nov 22, 2015, at 5:40 PM, Lloyd Helferty <</span><a href="mailto:lhelferty@sympatico.ca"><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>lhelferty@sympatico.ca</span></a><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Thanks, Ron.<br><br> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span>I know nothing about the Jetter/EPA total efficiency calculation(s) that "use the char’s energy value".<br>Could you elaborate?<br> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Is the Jetter/EPA total efficiency calculation your preferred methodology as a<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><i>next step</i><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>to the "WBT"?<br><br>(Yes, I am quite out of touch with the latest in "Stove testing" methodologies. What "efficiency" methodology does the GACC currently endorse when testing stoves that produce biochar? Is it still an open question?)<br><br>Regards,<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> Lloyd Helferty, Engineering Technologist<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> Principal, Biochar Consulting (Canada)<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> </span><a href="http://www.biochar-consulting.ca/"><span style='font-size:8.5pt'>www.biochar-consulting.ca</span></a><span style='font-size:8.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> Earth Stewardship consultant, Passive Remediation Systems Ltd. (PRSI)<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> </span><a href="http://www.prsi.ca/"><span style='font-size:8.5pt'>http://www.prsi.ca/</span></a><span style='font-size:8.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> Promotions Manager, Climate Smart Agriculture Youth Network (CSAYN)<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> </span><a href="http://csayouthnetwork.wordpress.com/"><span style='font-size:8.5pt'>http://csayouthnetwork.wordpress.com/</span></a><span style='font-size:8.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> </span><a href="http://www.fao.org/climate-smart-agriculture/"><span style='font-size:8.5pt'>http://www.fao.org/climate-smart-agriculture/</span></a><span style='font-size:8.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> </span><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/grp/home?gid=6756248"><span style='font-size:8.5pt'>https://www.linkedin.com/grp/home?gid=6756248</span></a><span style='font-size:8.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> 48 Suncrest Blvd, Thornhill, ON, Canada<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> 905-707-8754<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> CELL: 647-886-8754<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> Skype: lloyd.helferty<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> Co-manager, Sustainable Agriculture Group<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> </span><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Sustainable-Agriculture-3866458"><span style='font-size:8.5pt'>http://www.linkedin.com/groups/Sustainable-Agriculture-3866458</span></a><span style='font-size:8.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> Steering Committee coordinator<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> Canadian Biochar Initiative (CBI)<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> Community Sustainability (CoSWoG), A working group of Science for Peace<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> was: </span><a href="http://www.scienceforpeace.ca/currents/"><span style='font-size:8.5pt'>http://www.scienceforpeace.ca/currents/</span></a><span style='font-size:8.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> President, Co-founder & CBI Liaison, Biochar-Ontario<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> Member of the Don Watershed Regeneration Council (DWRC)<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> Manager, Biochar Offsets Group:<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> </span><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2446475"><span style='font-size:8.5pt'>http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2446475</span></a><span style='font-size:8.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> Advisory Committee Member, IBI<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> </span><a href="http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1404717"><span style='font-size:8.5pt'>http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1404717</span></a><span style='font-size:8.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> </span><a href="http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42237506675"><span style='font-size:8.5pt'>http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42237506675</span></a><span style='font-size:8.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> </span><a href="http://groups.google.com/group/biochar-ontario"><span style='font-size:8.5pt'>http://groups.google.com/group/biochar-ontario</span></a><span style='font-size:8.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> </span><a href="http://www.meetup.com/biocharontario/"><span style='font-size:8.5pt'>http://www.meetup.com/biocharontario/</span></a><span style='font-size:8.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> </span><a href="http://www.biocharontario.ca/"><span style='font-size:8.5pt'>http://www.biocharontario.ca</span></a><span style='font-size:8.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> </span><a href="http://www.biochar.ca/"><span style='font-size:8.5pt'>www.biochar.ca</span></a><span style='font-size:8.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'>"Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, Nothing is going to get better. It's not."<o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style='font-size:8.5pt'> — Dr. Seuss (The Lorax)<o:p></o:p></span></pre><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>On 2015-11-22 3:13 PM, Ronal W. Larson wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Lloyd etal<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>I am imagining a charcoal-making stove owner who has 2 clients to whom she sells charcoal. One client (A) burns the char; the other (B) uses it as biochar. How can one say the stove has two different efficiencies?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>But another argument is that if all the produced char is used by C as biochar - it must be that the char’s soil value exceeded the energy value. So perhaps the efficiency value for client C should be even better than for case A. This soil use for the char is where I think we are heading.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>In sum, I see no reason to do other than use the char’s energy value when calculating a total efficiency - as is being done by Jetter/EPA/<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Ron<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>On Nov 22, 2015, at 7:48 AM, Lloyd Helferty [biochar] <</span><a href="mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com"><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>biochar@yahoogroups.com</span></a><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div id=ygrp-mlmsg><div id=ygrp-msg><div id=ygrp-text><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Ron,<br><br> <span class=apple-converted-space> </span>In reading that quoted/highlighted paragraph, my expectation is that the term, "</span><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#2E2E2E;background:white'>utilizing<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#2E2E2E;background:white'>the<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><b><u><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#2E2E2E'>charcoal</span></u></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>" (..."should be considered as a useful energy") is<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><i>probably</i><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>meant to assume that the leftover/residual charcoal would subsequently be utilized as a<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>fuel</b>, and probably not as<b>biochar</b>. If the resulting charcoal is used in a non-energy application (i.e. as biochar) then one does not normally talk about or refer to, "the<i><u>energy</u></i><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>stored in the charcoal" as being "useful" anymore, if one considers the classical [non-regenerative / linear] energy models. (Of course if one understands the use of biochar from a holistic** perspective, it can make sense to use biochar in a non-fuel application if that application results in a boost to the actual [biomass] fuel -- and food --<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><i>production capabilities</i><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>of the soil from which the original stove 'fuel' was derived... but of course those are more complex calculations that must also consider time and a number of other variables which are not normally taken into consideration.)<br><br>**Note: If considered in this holistic perspective / context, the use of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><i>soil-health enhancing</i><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>materials like biochar will very likely eventually be a<i>prerequisite</i><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>of the very definition of "sustainable" biofuels / biomaterials.<br><br>CC: Biochar group<br><br>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span style='font-size:11.5pt'> Lloyd Helferty<o:p></o:p></span></pre><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>On 2015-11-22 3:58 AM, Ron Larson wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Professor Jain<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>1. Thank you for a tremendously useful document. Especially that you (Elsevier?, TERI?) have made it available on a non-fee basis (for a<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b><u>SHORT</u><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>time).</b><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>2. I am a little surprised (and delighted) that I received this on the climate change list. I am alerting four other lists who will also find this most useful.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>3. To me, interested in both climate change (through biochar - not mentioned) and stoves, the most important sentence in your exceedingly thorough (161 cites) is this partial paragraph in Section 2.3.1 (emphases added):<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E2E2E;background:white'> <span class=apple-converted-space><i> </i></span><i> “The energy expenditure in the form of fuel for boiling and evaporating water is calculated by standardizing the amount of raw fuel with fuel moisture content, ambient temperature,<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></i></span><b><i><u><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#2E2E2E;background:white'>charcoal</span></u></i></b><span class=apple-converted-space><i><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E2E2E;background:white'> </span></i></span><i><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E2E2E;background:white'>formed fuel and calorific value of fuel and<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></i><b><i><u><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#2E2E2E;background:white'>charcoal</span></u></i></b><i><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E2E2E;background:white'>. This is called the ‘equivalent dry wood consumed’.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></i><b><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#2E2E2E;background:white'>Charcoal</span></i></b><span class=apple-converted-space><i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;background:white'> </span></i></span><i><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E2E2E;background:white'>utilization after the cooking process in real households has not been validated in any of the studies. If the<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></i><b><i><u><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#2E2E2E;background:white'>charcoal</span></u></i></b><span class=apple-converted-space><i><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E2E2E;background:white'> </span></i></span><i><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E2E2E;background:white'>disposed by targeted population then the fuel consumption can be corrected. <span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></i><i><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#2E2E2E'> <span style='background:white'>If a certain community has a habit of utilizing the<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><b><u>charcoal</u></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='background:white'> </span></span><span style='background:white'>then<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></span></i><i><span style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E2E2E'>…</span></i><i><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E2E2E'>..</span></i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#2E2E2E;background:white'>t<b><u>he energy stored in the<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></u></b></span></i><b><i><u><span style='font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#2E2E2E'>charcoal</span></u></i></b><span class=apple-converted-space><i><span style='font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#2E2E2E;background:white'> </span></i></span><b><i><u><span style='font-size:24.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#2E2E2E'>should be considered as a useful energy</span></u></i></b><i><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2E2E2E;background:white'>.” </span></i><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>4. As I know you know, there is more than one way to report the impact of charcoal production in stove comparisons. Examples coming.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>5. I could not find an email address for Ms. (Dr?) Pooja Arora. I intend to look up other papers she and you have published. Please congratulate her as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Again, thanks for a very useful stove assessment document. I am aware of nothing like it.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>Ron (first/past “stove” and “biochar” lists coordinator)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'>On Nov 21, 2015, at 10:09 PM, S. Jain (Env. Engg.) wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='margin-left:3.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Dear Colleagues,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><br> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>We are sharing with you an article on<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b><i><span style='color:#17375E'>Chronological development in cookstove assessment methods: Challenges and way forward</span></i></b>. We hope to receive your inputs and comments on the same.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><br> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Abstract</span></b><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>This review intended to collect and collate the information related to cookstove testing methodologies applied in lab and field conditions and their output in the form of energy and emission parameters. The important information related to progression of cookstove testing techniques was segregated in order to understand the relationships in different indicators of cookstove performance and to understand the sources of uncertainty in emission data. The major research issue that has been dwelt upon in the recent literature is the establishment of relationship between lab and field results of cookstove performance. It is observed that controlled cooking test and kitchen performance test are the two field based tests which provide a better picture of a particular cookstove performance as it involves the user perspective. Misrepresentation of actual cookstove performance based on laboratory based testing puts the present standard protocols in question. Solutions have been put forward by some research studies; however a validation is needed through multiple scientific investigations conducted at various temporal and spatial scales. It has been observed that cookstove testing methodologies are still in their nascent stage compared to the research that has already been conducted for other sources where biomass combustion emissions have studied thoroughly. Still the shift in focus of upcoming research studies towards field based integrated cookstove testing methodologies has the potential to drive future cookstove research in the new direction.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><br> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.5pt'>We are providing you with the following personal article link, which will provide free access to your article, and is valid for 50 days, until January 10, 2016</span><br><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><br></span><a href="http://authors.elsevier.com/a/1S4Na4s9HvhN9u"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>http://authors.elsevier.com/a/1S4Na4s9HvhN9u</span></a><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br></span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br></span><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"><span 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style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br></span><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br></span><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/"><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'>http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</span></a><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Georgia",serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br></span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br></span><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br></span><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/"><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</span></a><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br style='text-align:start'><br></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:white'>__._,_.___<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='margin-top:7.5pt' id=fromDMARC><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" noshade style='color:#E3E3E3' align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal>Posted by: Ronal W. Larson <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>> <o:p></o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" noshade style='color:#E3E3E3' align=center></div></div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td style='padding:5.25pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0in'><a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/biochar/conversations/messages/18767;_ylc=X3oDMTJybmx2bW5kBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRtc2dJZAMxODc2NwRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0NDg0NzAzNzc-?act=reply&messageNum=18767"><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2D50FD;text-decoration:none'>Reply via web post</span></b></a><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2D50FD'> <o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='color:#2D50FD'>•<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td style='padding:5.25pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0in'><a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net?subject=Re%3A%20%5BStoves%5D%20%5Bbiochar%5D%20%5Bbiochar-stoves%5D%20A%20review%20of%20chronological%20development%20in%20cookstove%20assessment%20methods%3A%20Challenges%20and%20way%20forward"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2D50FD;text-decoration:none'>Reply to sender </span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2D50FD'><o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0in'><span style='color:#2D50FD'>•<o:p></o:p></span></p></td><td 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