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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Hi Ron<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Once upon a dark and stormy November night, the cat went to the door and meowed to be let out. The Master opened the door, but the cat immediately turned around and refused to go out.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>A minute later, the cat went to another door, meowed again, and when it saw the bad weather again, refused to go out again.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>A few minutes later the cat again meowed, at a third door.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>The Master did not arise to open the third door, because he deduced that the cat was looking for “The Door to Summer”.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> biochar@yahoogroups.com [mailto:biochar@yahoogroups.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 26, 2015 11:10 AM<br><b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass <stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org>; Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott@outlook.com><br><b>Cc:</b> Biochar <biochar@yahoogroups.com>; Entire Group <biocharstoves-7xpll@wiggiomail.com>; biochar@googlegroups.com<br><b>Subject:</b> [biochar] Re: [Stoves] A review of chronological development in cookstove assessment methods: Challenges and way forward [1 Attachment]<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div id=ygrp-mlmsg><div id=ygrp-msg><div id=ygrp-text><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt'>[<a href="#TopText"><span style='text-decoration:none'>Attachment(s)</span></a> from Ronal W. Larson included below]</span></b> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Crispin and lists (some added)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>Yours is a perfect example of my complaint. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>Apparently you believe that the inefficiency of this stove (which I would call a wonderful stove) is 1- .334 = .666 (66.6%). I disagree- that is not the inefficiency. If you have a different perception of the word “inefficiency” - what is it? Please give your view on inefficiency (NOT efficiency) for this specific example - which is amazingly close to the example I gave to start this thread (almost 30% char!!)<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>I sure wish you had supplied a cite, so I could look further into the testing. I have no way of knowing from this test anything about the char - which this stove was clearly trying to produce. Jim Jetter does enough post testing to give us that number. One might assume you don’t know, since it is not given (and would be of considerable interest to anyone buying this stove. But to get your 12.81 MJ/kg (four significant figures !!) in the fuel consumed, you must have the char energy content to the same accuracy.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>I also have to question the computations. How can I find how you got the numbers of 12.81 MJ/kg. Do you really believe you know that to 4 significant figures? What was the fuel moisture content and how recently measured?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>Why is 2.1 kW a “Fail”? Sounds pretty good to me. Is this due to the same reasoning that causes a CSI rating of only two stars? Would the EPA methodology give this two stars?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span>Whew! I still have to “commend” you for trying so hard to convince the world that biochar and char-making stoves make no sense. But your commenting on the word “inefficiency” for this particular stove would still be helpful to a few of us. And letting us know who did this testing - and where to read about the procedures.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Ron <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 width=567 height=222 id=FE470A63-AEA0-43A2-A66D-587CB358702E src="cid:image001.jpg@01D1285C.AE1614C0"><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Nov 25, 2015, at 10:25 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <<a href="mailto:crispinpigott@outlook.com">crispinpigott@outlook.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Dear Ron</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>In case you are under the impression that people are not reporting the mass of char produced, here is a sample of a stove test using the CSI method.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Regards</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Crispin</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><image001.jpg><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Art and ccs<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span class=apple-tab-span> </span><span class=apple-converted-space> </span> Another message from you a little later said you would be creating (I think) a place to archive this series on how to report on TLUDs in a consistent and helpful way. Thanks for that.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>[snip]</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br></span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:purple'>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><br>to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page<br></span><a href="http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:purple'>http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br><br>for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:<br></span><a href="http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/"><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:purple'>http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:white'>__._,_.___<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#628C2A'>Attachment(s) from Ronal W. Larson</span></b> | <span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/biochar/attachments/858910038;_ylc=X3oDMTJyZjdpZ3VhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDdmlld09uV2ViBHN0aW1lAzE0NDg1NTA2MTE-"><span style='text-decoration:none'>View attachments on the web </span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:1.5pt;margin-left:0in' id=attach-count><b><span style='color:#628C2A'>1 of 1 Photo(s)</span></b> <o:p></o:p></p><div style='margin-bottom:3.75pt;display:table'><div style='margin-top:1.5pt;margin-bottom:1.5pt;float:left;overflow:hidden'><div style='border:solid #666666 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;overflow:hidden'><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/biochar/attachments/858910038;_ylc=X3oDMTJuazlldDdwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQ0ODU1MDYxMQ--?itemid=515451155"><span style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 id="_x0000_i1026" src="https://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/22438052/tn/515451155" alt=image001.jpg></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/biochar/attachments/858910038;_ylc=X3oDMTJuazlldDdwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRzZWMDYXR0YWNobWVudARzbGsDcGhvdG8Ec3RpbWUDMTQ0ODU1MDYxMQ--?itemid=515451155" title=image001.jpg><span style='text-decoration:none'>image001.jpg</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style='margin-top:7.5pt' id=fromDMARC><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" noshade style='color:#E3E3E3' align=center></div><p class=MsoNormal>Posted by: Ronal W. Larson <<a href="mailto:rongretlarson@comcast.net">rongretlarson@comcast.net</a>> <o:p></o:p></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><hr size=2 width="100%" noshade style='color:#E3E3E3' align=center></div></div><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellpadding=0><tr><td style='padding:5.25pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 3.75pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:7.5pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:7.5pt;margin-left:0in'><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#2D50FD'><a href="https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/biochar/conversations/messages/18774;_ylc=X3oDMTJya250djZlBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzIyNDM4MDUyBGdycHNwSWQDMTcwNzQxODYxMgRtc2dJZAMxODc3NARzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzE0NDg1NTA2MTE-?act=reply&messageNum=18774"><span style='color:#2D50FD;text-decoration:none'>Reply via web post</span></a> <o:p></o:p></span></b></p></td><td style='padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'><p class=MsoNormal 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