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Philip,<br>
<br>
1. I changed the subject line to reflect the topic.<br>
<br>
2. Your request is not of much interest to the STOVES Listserv.
so......<br>
<br>
3. I am sending this reply and your message to the BiOCHAR
listserv. Any responses should be send directly to Philip Lloyd
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:plloyd@mweb.co.za"><plloyd@mweb.co.za></a> as well as to Listservs because I
believe that he is not subscribed (yet) to the biochar listserv.<br>
<br>
4. Do not expect to find your answers in a reference book from
2009. Even now in 2015 it will be difficult to find the
"conclusive" type of proofs that you are seeking. Part of the
reason is that there is so little money into biochar field trials.
And SOOOOOO many variables that even good results can be challenged.
The status of "proof" about biochar benefits might be akin to the
status of "proof" about climate change 30 years ago, or 10 yrs ago.,
and there are still plenty of deniers about climate change today.
Biochar research has a loooooooong way to go. Much work needs to
be done. <br>
<br>
5. Personally, I am a "biochar believer" (within reason) and am
increasingly active on biochar work. But do not ask me to "prove"
it. I am going with my hunches, similar to how I got started with
TLUD stoves 15 years ago, and only in recent years is there some
noteworthy acceptance. I hope that biochar can have faster
results, but there can be only a few growing seasons per year even
in greenhouses.<br>
<br>
Let's take this discussion to the Biochar Listserv.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:psanders@ilstu.edu">psanders@ilstu.edu</a>
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.drtlud.com">www.drtlud.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/26/2015 4:41 AM, Philip Lloyd
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dear
All<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I
am seeking solid scientific information on the benefits of
adding biochar to soil. I need, at very least, the results
of controlled experiments on significant sized plots of
yields over several years for at least one crop, with one
plot untreated and the other treated, and preferably with
three crops and several soil types. I was certain some
agronomist somewhere had done such tests, but I have been
unable to locate them – all I can find is uncontrolled tests
on very small areas, and of very short duration with
uncharacterized soils.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Help
needed!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Prof
Philip Lloyd</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Energy
Institute</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Cape
Peninsula University of Technology</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-ZA">PO Box 1906<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-ZA">Bellville 7535<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-ZA">Tel: 021 959 4323<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-ZA">Fax: 086 778 0257<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-ZA">Cell: 083 441 5247<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-ZA">PA: Nadia 021 959 4330<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Stoves [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Crispin Pemberton-Pigott<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 26 November 2015 01:31<br>
<b>To:</b> Stoves<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] [biochar] [biochar-stoves]
A review of chronological development in cookstove
assessment methods: Challenges and way forward<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-GB">Dear Frank and Julien<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-GB"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-GB">If you know the pyrolysis temperature is
above, say, 550 C, is it true that the remaining char is
'representative' of the fixed carbon content of the fuel?
How close is it? What temperature would you say is close
enough to give a meaningful fixed carbon number? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-GB"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-GB">Hirendra Chakbarti is punting a calculation
method for ultimate analysis that requires the fixed
carbon number. From what I see it requires drying it first
because the moisture affects the final dry carbon mass.
Still, a mathematical fix might deal with that. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-GB"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-GB">My specific goal is the fixed carbon content
of the original fuel which has a known moisture content,
but nothing else save the total mass. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-GB"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-GB">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-GB">Crispin <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-GB"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div id="_originalContent">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Dear Ron and Stovers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">My interest is
controlling the fuel. This done by 1) collecting fuel
like that being used in real World and 2) normalizing
the energy value going to the secondary by using
pyrolyze gases + (CO -> CO2) values. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">I cannot determine
any energy efficiency values because this is just one
side of the equation. And you do not supply me with the
values of this one side as I need them. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">The value I am
proposing is only useful for energy traveling to another
location - secondary. Making char does not require
energy, in fact it waste energy. And (bio-)char does not
have useful energy, in fact the energy is locked up and
cannot be used by soil microbes for 1000 years. So what
I propose is not applicatable to what you are talking
about and not intended to be so. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Your (bio-)char (not
charcoal used for cooking) is not ‘energy’ locked up but
should be referred to as carbon. Following the total
carbon in the feedstock; separating it into available
carbon and non-available carbon (TGA) for optimum then
determining the amount actually made from your
char-maker is more to what you want. And that being your
efficiency values. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">But in a World that
is connecting fuel energy producing non-available carbon
(biochar) and that biochar is made >90% carbon (DAF)
I guess it would be ok to assign non-available carbon
with an energy value and use in calculations. Lets see
if we can do that:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">1) we need total
energy of the biomass fuel (dry weight)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">2) using TGA we need
energy of the total char (DAF) <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">We assume the char
(DAF) is 90+% carbon and assign that an energy value.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">3) We determine
energy of the pyrolysis gases (total - char)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> 4) So thats the
total maximum amount of energy assigned to biochar that
should be produced in your devise. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">5) You run YOUR
device and produce biochar. Ash a subsample to
determine the weight of biochar (DAF). Assign an energy
value to it based on biochar (DAF) being >90%
carbon. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Now you can
calculate the efficiency of your device at producing
biochar.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Note: If you have
wood (dry) and you use the pyrolysis gases for
something, you use the CO->CO2 gases for something
and use the (Bio-)char left over for something then 100%
of the energy in the wood is always used. You are left
with efficiency determinations found (compared to that
determined by TGA) for making biochar. But if making
biochar is found less than expected so to be not very
efficient then the non-biochar gases (CO -> CO2) went
to join the pyrolysis gases and it still always = all
adds up to 100%. You can’t go wrong!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Where you can go
wrong is if after making the biochar you test it to see
if it still has hydrogen and lots of oxygen left
indicating not a good biochar and it is then wasted.
This is bad.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">But if still good
for char cooking (due to some volatiles) you are now
back to 100% efficiency. You can’t go wrong!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">100% efficiency
every time!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Love it!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Frank <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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