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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Many thanks, Frank<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I think yours is a most reasonable assessment. Everything I have researched to date tends to suggest that TLUD biochar is a rather low-value product, and I am really keen to find some evidence that there is more merit in the material than I have so far been able to find. I hope others will comment on your remarks.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Kind regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Prof Philip Lloyd</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Energy Institute</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cape Peninsula University of Technology</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-ZA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>PO Box 1906<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-ZA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bellville 7535<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-ZA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Tel: 021 959 4323<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-ZA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Fax: 086 778 0257<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-ZA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cell: 083 441 5247<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-ZA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>PA: Nadia 021 959 4330<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Frank Shields<br><b>Sent:</b> 26 November 2015 11:55<br><b>To:</b> Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Stoves] Request for biochar results.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Dear Prof. Philip Lloyd,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal>I agree with everything you say including ISO stove testing and what the farmer needs before paying a lot of money for biochar. Problem is biochar is a different animal than something the plant needs like water, nitrogen, nutrients etc. So doing field tests with biochar makes no more sense than seeing what adding sand will do to your soil. It makes it hard to market. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The biochar the TLUDs are making may not be the best quality char and when a lot is added may cause problems first year. If nutrients are added to it or it is mixed into compost or in some way made to be a material plants require then there is better success and a chance for sales. I think mixed with compost is best because any phytotoxins should be neutralized but the composter expects to get more money for his product. Mixing with inorganic fertilizers to soak in biochar will be a good nutrient product, but then again more money required. <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>That is why a lot of interest in using biochar for more high end uses. Potting soils, green roofs, swales, water filtration etc. But with higher concentrations of char used it must be clear of phytotoxins. A simple plant growth study using cucumbers will determine that. Selling to farmers has been a hard sale. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Regards<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Frank<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Nov 26, 2015, at 1:17 PM, Philip Lloyd <<a href="mailto:plloyd@mweb.co.za">plloyd@mweb.co.za</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Thank you, Frank – unfortunately, I have been a farmer, and lab results don’t cut it – it is the same debate we are having in ISO re stove testing – the WBT does clearly not indicate what will happen in the field. What I have described is the very minimum any farmer would need before deciding to modify his soil in some way – and that is information which seems to be missing.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Kind regards</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Prof Philip Lloyd</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Energy Institute</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cape Peninsula University of Technology</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-ZA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>PO Box 1906</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-ZA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Bellville 7535</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-ZA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Tel: 021 959 4323</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-ZA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Fax: 086 778 0257</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-ZA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Cell: 083 441 5247</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-ZA style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>PA: Nadia 021 959 4330</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Stoves [<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Frank Shields<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>26 November 2015 08:48<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<br><b>Cc:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Biochar<br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>[Stoves] Request for biochar results.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Dear Prof. Philip Lloyd,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>The improvements biochar makes to a soil is best seen in lab results. It reports changes in texture, water movement and availability (along with soluble nutrients), nutrient holding etc. etc. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Because biochar is not needed by plants you will only see a change in plants if the changes in soil texture and/or nutrient availability are made limiting. If not made limiting there will be no difference so it could take many years before the conditions are right for seeing a biochar difference. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>If a lab tests shows biochar holds nitrogen longer in the root zone compared to non-biochar soil then at some point when nitrogen is depleted in the non-biochar soil you will see a difference. Naturally it could take years before the condition is meet but in research the limiting condition can be forced. Poorly designed biochar test plots show good results, bad results and no difference. Results mean little.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Regards<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Frank<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Frank Shields<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:14.65pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Georgia","serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><blockquote style='margin-left:2.4pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:14.65pt;background:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Dear All</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:14.65pt;background:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:14.65pt;background:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I am seeking solid scientific information on the benefits of adding biochar to soil. I need, at very least, the results of controlled experiments on significant sized plots of yields over several years for at least one crop, with one plot untreated and the other treated, and preferably with three crops and several soil types. I was certain some agronomist somewhere had done such tests, but I have been unable to locate them – all I can find is uncontrolled tests on very small areas, and of very short duration with uncharacterized soils.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:14.65pt;background:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:14.65pt;background:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Help needed!</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:14.65pt;background:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:14.65pt;background:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Prof Philip Lloyd</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:14.65pt;background:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Energy Institute</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:14.65pt;background:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Cape Peninsula University of Technology</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:14.65pt;background:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial'><span lang=EN-ZA style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>PO Box 1906</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:14.65pt;background:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial'><span lang=EN-ZA style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Bellville 7535</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:14.65pt;background:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial'><span lang=EN-ZA style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Tel: 021 959 4323</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:14.65pt;background:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial'><span lang=EN-ZA style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Fax: 086 778 0257</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:14.65pt;background:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial'><span lang=EN-ZA style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Cell: 083 441 5247</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:14.65pt;background:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial'><span lang=EN-ZA style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D'>PA: Nadia 021 959 4330</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:14.65pt;background:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:14.65pt;background:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;line-height:14.65pt;background:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:6.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;margin-top:9.0pt;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;min-width: 350px;word-spacing:0px'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#333333'>This email has been protected by YAC (Yet Another Cleaner)<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://www.yac.mx/?source=email"><span style='color:#2BAFED;text-decoration:none'>www.yac.mx</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>_______________________________________________<br>Stoves mailing list<br><br>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address<br></span><a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:purple'>stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</span></a><span 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