<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Julien, List, Tom: (This also to be considered the last of the ETHOS series.)<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>Thanks Tom. I’m writing on flight home from Aprovecho, so will take a first crack at this (giving credit to Kirk Harris who drove me to Eugene and we discussed this a bit). I hope others will jump in.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1. My view is that we have not had any real “breakthroughs” in the stove world - but are making good progress. If we likened our path to going to school - the stove world is perhaps in middle school - lots still to learn in High School and College ahead of us. In this I am restricting myself to your interest (and most short-termers at Apro) - in TLUDs. I see little new information likely to occur with charcoal-using stoves and Rockets (they are mature technologies). At Apro, ALL the testing (and advance?) was with TLUDs this time; no charcoal-using stoves or Rockets (but plenty around to look at).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2. I think more than half of the testing was with fans, including the previously mentioned Mimi-Moto (testing mostly by Paul Anderson. But also testing with TLUD fan - stoves made in Portugal (excellent high quality factory workmanship), Ohio (very large, using rice husks), and one set from South Africa. The first three and most fan stoves that I have seen have fans in the stove itself. The one from South Africa (developed by Dave Lello) is the first I recall having the fan in a fixed base. More important to future sales is that the fan electrical supply is a small addition (20-25%) of the solar panel coming with the stove - also supplying lighting and cell-phone recharging. Considerable discussion with Dave about marketing using PAYGo principles (users can see money saved from day 1).</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>3. This last (“Lello”) stove was being tested with the normal (outer) secondary air hole locations, but also an alternative using an interior “column”. This could be a wave of the future - because of the way this prevents the normal (too-laminar) central flame. Good results (meaning low emissions, constant power, etc) were being obtained in the first testing over these last three days.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>4. Several times at ETHOS we heard that the optimum ratio of primary air to secondary air was about .25 to .3 (or primary to total about 0.2 to .25). [for emphasis - secondary to primary at 3.5 to 4.) Perhaps we should be thinking of controlling the larger (secondary) amount - and bleeding a little off for the primary. I don’t know of anyone who is thinking or doing that.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>5. With the real-time testing equipment available at Apro, it is possible to see “strange” events that we don’t see in normal operation. Kirk Harris saw at least three still-unexplained happenings. The CO level rose significantly in the early stages - a broad peak at first when first lit - maybe 10 times as high as during normal operation. Perhaps due to the pyrolysis front not really having been established. But then, after a good strong flame had been established, a very similar “bump” occurred as the 5 liter pot of water was added. Reduced air flow? Different radiation conditions?</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>CO is not considered a major problem - except in charcoal-using stoves.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>6. Kirk for the first time today noted that near the end of the run, the particulate count went below the ambient. The stove was cleaning up the room air. Why?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>7. “Big” spikes for both CO and particulates - often (usually) appear as the pyrolysis front reaches the bottom. - But not always. Why?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>8. Every morning at Apro, there is a handout of all the previous day’s testing results. Kirk noted that this year there were many more Tier 4 levels than he recalls from past testing. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>7. Kirk was testing for the first time a ‘radiant-fin-array-dome”. As the gases exit the stove - this “dome” turns red and presumably helps in radiant heat transfer to the pot. More to come from Kirk on that. Dean Still reported at ETHOS the use of a special exhaust cleanup catalyst material - that turns white and should similar help with radiant heat transfer.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>8. Some discussion on using the pot to limit airflow - for improving heat transfer. We saw no aperture changes (o control power levels) during operation but this might be a future control mechanism. Arnold Oliphant demonstrated 1 and 2 mm flame-exit gaps.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>9. I saw some excellent looking new experimental and analytic material at ETHOS - mostly on TLUDs. We will have to wait to receive the PPts to better understand if these were breakthroughs. I saw several PPts that might be small breakthroughs.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>10. Lots of discussion of fuels. There seems sure to be increased emphasis on pellets.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>11. I heard the word “biochar” more than previously. More than “carbon negativity”; emphasis on soils, although the benefits are not in conflict.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ron</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 4, 2016, at 9:12 AM, Tom Miles <<a href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com" class="">tmiles@trmiles.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Julien,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Great question for the group that is at Aprovecho this week including Paul, Krista, Ron and others. I’m sure that they are still busy testing.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Tom<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Stoves [<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Julien Winter<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, February 03, 2016 9:02 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[Stoves] ND-TLUD Burners at ETHOS -- What Works Best?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Hello folks who attended ETHOS<br class=""><br class="">Were any important breakthroughs in natural draft, TLUD gas burners reported at ETHOS? Is there a concensus developing on what works best? <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I would not be surprised if there is a different solution for pellet fuels as opposed to chunks of wood or large briquettes. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Cheers,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Julien<br clear="all" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><br class="">--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Julien Winter<br class="">Cobourg, ON, CANADA<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; 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