<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Tom (thanks for your account below) and list</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>1. I write hoping that someone knows how to locate the full two years (Jan 2004 to Jan 2006) of Archives that are missing in the “Table of Contents” seen at </div><div class=""> <a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/newsgroup-archive/stoves/Past_Archives_Index.htm" class="">http://www.bioenergylists.org/newsgroup-archive/stoves/Past_Archives_Index.htm</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I started writing on a TomMiles list about char-making stoves in November or December of 2005. My several dozen messages in Feb. 2006 (next) show I was reporting on tests in Sudan Ethiopia and Zimbabwe in 2005. I had done tests in Sweden earlier. I would greatly enjoy seeing the archived months immediately prior to my item 2 below.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I was surprised to see Crispin’s and Kobus’ names on a stoves message in Jan 2004. There were probably many others on today’s list who were doing stove work even then.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>2. I have just spent a few hours reading all of the new first month’s messages (maybe 100?) found at </div><div class=""> <a href="http://www.bioenergylists.org/newsgroup-archive/stoves/1996-February.htm" class="">http://www.bioenergylists.org/newsgroup-archive/stoves/1996-February.htm</a>.</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>(No stoves messages around for Jan. 2006)</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>I hope a few others will read that as well and see if they see anything in that first “new” month that is much different from what is now being said (both pro and con). Thee were a lot of negatives on a char-making stove in that first official month (with about a dozen list members). The bibliography that Julien has developed (and available on Paul’s list) should include this Feb. 1996 start of today’s list - in part because there are at least a dozen good stove-related cites given in that first “official” month. The many excellent stove workers at Eindhoven (Prasad, Moerman, Verhart, etc) clearly had at that time only worked on down draft cook stoves - and none for char-making purposes. In that first month the only support for a char-making stove that I had was from a bright Iowa farmer by the name of Tom Duke. I urge anyone interested in TLUDs to read that first “official” first month of the present stoves list. The only thing I find missing there from today’s discussions is the word and concept of “biochar” - placing char in the ground. But clean burning, low cost, and making money while cooking is all there in Feb. 1996.</div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span>It was good to see Mark Bryden and Kirk Smith on the list in that first month. But I know there was some interesting TLUD dialog before that in the missing archives - especially including my crude (this was 20 years ago) TLUD diagram - that is no different from what I would do today. Anyone have copies of anything stove-iist-like before Feb. 1996? I remember seeing this missing material even in the last year or so.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Ron</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"> </span></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Feb 18, 2016, at 9:45 PM, Tom Miles <<a href="mailto:tmiles@trmiles.com" class="">tmiles@trmiles.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Julien,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">“</span>What I think we need more of is help for the practical cookstove developers.” Indeed.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Looking for help with cookstove development while working in forested areas of rural Mexico in 1972-74 was something of a challenge. In the US in the story of improved cookstoves were attempts at improved combustion like the Lorena mud stove. While we worked with gasification from about 1976 to the present and saw it applied to wood heating appliances in the US we didn’t see gasification applied to cookstoves until 1982-83 when I became acquainted with the work at Eindhoven 1980-1987 which included downdraft concepts. Their work was presented at European bioenergy conferences.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><a href="http://www.cookstove.net/introduction.html" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://www.cookstove.net/introduction.html</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The stratified downdraft was being developed by Tom Reed at SERI to make synthesis gases and was first demonstrated in 1982. We had a close association with gasification work of all kinds during that period. My experience with stoves in the 1980s was largely with various jikos including the ceramic jiko. Baldwin’s work published by VITA became a good combustion reference for practitioners who knew about VITA, and the Appropriate Development Groups like (ITDG). Governments and aid agencies invested in stove programs at this time but eventually abandoned them because the impact was not visible or measureable. As Paul has chronicled it was at this time that Tom Reed started working with Fred Hottenroth and others who had an interest in cookstoves.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">At some point about 1989 Tom cooked part of our dinner on the Sierra ZMart stove in his kitchen. He then applied for funding through a public agency. We were asked to vet the proposal. I remember at the time that we found very little literature on a gasifying cook stove even though we had seen several gasifying designs for wood heating appliances. It took months to get a stove because they were hand made in batches. We followed the water boiling tests procedures of the time. We were intrigued and impressed by clear gasification and char burnout stages of the stove. Our correspondence and tests covered the period of about 1990-1992.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The interaction between engineering and design and field development and testing was limited in global terms. Funding had a big impact on this. Most of the work in the field was done by volunteers from non-profits and church affiliated groups. The charitable work that has been done by these groups has always been very impressive. About the time that we started this stoves discussion list in 1994-1996 we began to see a slow increase in stoves activity. As moderator Ron Larson did the community a greater service by bringing people together inline and visiting them in the field. Ron, Alex English and others were testing gasifying stoves at the time of the stoves conference in Pune in 2000. Dean Still and Mark Bryden started ETHOS about that time. Gasifying stoves struggled for attention with the growing improvement of rocket stoves. I think that Boiling Point was still “bubbling” and the Intermediate Technology Group became Practical Action. HEDON was created. The dream of increasing interaction in the field was boosted with the Partnership for Clean Indoor Air and later the Global Alliance for Clean Indoor Air. But it is still difficult for stove developers to benefit from the big budgets being spent today on cookstove development. At our recent ETHOS meeting stove developers, who mostly work in the field, wondered how they could benefit from all the work being done in the laboratories. So we still have the challenge. <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Tom <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><a name="_MailEndCompose" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></a></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Stoves [<a href="mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:stoves-bounces@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Julien Winter<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, February 18, 2016 6:27 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <<a href="mailto:stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">stoves@lists.bioenergylists.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[Stoves] Version 2.0 of TLUD history is available<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Hi Paul;<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Thanks for your thorough account on the development of TLUD cookstoves. It is well illustrated and rich in information.<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">For me (as an outsider soil scientist joining in), what stands out in the history of TLUD cookstove development, and biomass cookstove development in general is the disconnect between two communities (1) the practical cookstove developers, on the one hand, and (2) the combustions scientists and engineers on the other side.<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">What were ostensibly "TLUDs" existed in several research laboratories since the 1940s. After the oil crisis in 1973, there was a big increase in research interest in biomass energy. TLUDs were laboratory models of moving grate gasifiers. An influential paper appeared in 1984:<br class="">Stubington, JF; Fenton, H. 1984. Combustion Characteristics of Dried and Pelletized Bagasse. Combustion Science and Technology 37: 285-299 DOI: 10.1080/00102208408923758<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">After that, forced draft TLUD research took off in the academic world and the 70+ papers (in English) have been published.<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Unfortunately, nobody in the world of practical stove development was reading those papers, either because they didn't have access through paywalls, and/or because they lacked the scientific training to understand them.<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">In the academic world (asside from health-oriented research on emissions, and sociology), there has been almost no reaseach specifically on biomass cookstoves and their mechanism of combustion. Only recently has this strated to change with graduate students working on TLUD stoves:<br class=""><br class="">Huangfu, Y; Li, H; Chen, X; Xue, C; Chen C; Liu, G. 2014. Effects of moisture content in fuel on thermal performance and emission of biomass semi-gasified cookstove. Energy for Sustainable Development 21: 60–65<br class="">Varunkumar, S; Rajan, NKS; Mukunda, HS. 2011b. Single particle and packed bed combustion in modern gasifier stoves—density effects. Combustion Science and Technology 183: 1147-1163.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">Varunkumar, S; Rajan, NKS; Mukunda, HS. 2011a. Experimental and computational studies on a gasifier based stove. Energy Conversion and Management 53: 135–141<br class="">Varunkumar, S; Rajan, NKS; Mukunda, HS. 2013. Universal flame propagation behaviour in packed bed of biomass. Combustion Science and Technology, DOI:10.1080/00102202.2013.782297<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="all" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">Fortunately, the combustion scientists are beginning to take an interest, because issues in Global ecology are becoming acute. More graduate students are appearing.<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">What I think we need more of is help for the practical cookstove developers. There needs to be scientific capacity-building, access through the academic paywalls, and access to basic measurement equipment. There needs to be strong system of mentoring around the World so that these two communities — practicioners and scientists — become better connected and work together.<o:p class=""></o:p></p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">All the best,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Julien<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><br class="">--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Julien Winter<br class="">Cobourg, ON, CANADA<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; 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